USGA handicap system is bogus

[iacas]

Tom Morris would puke

Tom Morris played handicapped matches. They'd just agree how many strokes one guy got between themselves back then.

So, errrr, no. He might puke because the guy cheated/lied, but he wouldn't puke at the thought of "handicapping." Tom, a guy who wanted everyone to play golf, would probably think the premise was a great idea, to level the field. It's not like he'd lose to a 20-handicapper in the British Open.

[Shindig]

69.0/115

OK. Do you know what these mean? I'm going to simplify a bit while still sounding like a math nerd in the process.

The course rating - 69.0, in this case - is the expected score of a scratch (approx zero handicap) player. However, some courses play tougher as you get worse. Remember when they said a 10-handicapper couldn't break 100 at Oakmont? Well, it wasn't because of a course rating above 90. There's a line that maps handicap (x) to expected score (f(x)). "Expected" score, of course, is if you play exactly to your handicap - you can have a good round or bad round. You already have the y-intercept of that line: it's the course rating. The slope of the line is the slope rating over 113. Well, it isn't exactly true above, mainly the part about the y-intercept, but it will help you understand the differential formula: differential = (score - course rating) * 113 / slope rating. Now, if you solve for score in terms of differential, and "plug in" your handicap for the differential, you get the score you'd get by playing to your handicap exactly. If you and I play against each other and your expected score is 3 higher than mine, you get 3 strokes. The ten best of your 20 most recent differentials, times I think .96, gives you a handicap. So, your "friend" has a 21 handicap on a course with SR 115 and CR 69.0. His expected score is: 21 = (score - 69) * (113/115) score = 21 * (115/113) + 69 = 90.3 So that 82 is "only" 8 under his handicap for 1138:1 odds. If he does this repeatedly, encourage him to purchase lottery tickets. I'm at the office, so I hope this is right. If I'm wrong, you can be sure someone's going to correct me soon.

[azflying]

Great explanation, thanks.

8 under is one heck of a day but OK, it happens. "friend", nope, just some guy I got paired with that got into my pocket.

[Shindig]

Great explanation, thanks.

Once you understand the handicap system, you'll be more able to recognize sandbagging. I encourage you to call people out on it when you see them do it.

[connor35]

Your problem isn't with the "USGA Handicaps."

Well said.

But also as I've posted here before, if you play in a stroke play event with lots of golfers, someone is going to go low and this is legit. For example, someone might win the lottery. You can't go "He didn't really win the lottery because there is a 1 in 50 million chance of winning the lottery. So obviously he cheated." That's what people who look at the popeofslope chart are erroneously concluding. Rather millions play the lottery, so the odds of someone winning are much higher than 1 in 50 million. The same for a stroke play event with 50+ golfers. The probability of a particular player going low is a long shot. The probability of someone going low isn't as nearly as improbable. Are there sandbaggers? Sure. But every winner isn't a sandbagger. But most losers who don't understand variability tend to think the winners are sandbaggers. If there wasn't natural variation we wouldn't actually need to go out and play, would we? I'm a highly variable golfer (last 4 rounds were 86, 103, 94, 97). If that 86 came in a tournament I'd probably be labelled a sandbagger when it fact the average guy doesn't understand natural variability.

[jbsooner]

I'm a 12 handicap that shots 2-4 over each tourney round (-8 under my handicap). I finish in the money EVERY tourney I play. Anybody need any proshop $$$$$ I've got plenty.

[wachesawgolfer]

Shooting a 91 can mean different things on different courses. Are you familiar with how course rating and slope rating work?

My response had nothing to do with course ratings or slope, people here were complaining about persons shooting well below their handicap (obviously as adjusted to the course or course difficulty) due to probable improper reporting of their scores. If you enter the course and score, most computers enter the slope and rating, if not, you need to enter that yourself. Slopes and ratings was never the issue.

[crawf061]

There is something that kind of irks me about this whole handicap situation. Everyone keeps throwing around these odds of shooting X number below your handicap. They make it sound like your score for a particular round is the same as getting dealt a hand of cards in a poker game.

I just have a big problem with this because I have a hard time concentrating for 4.5 hours when I'm just playing with my buddies. As a result, I will usually have at least one blow up hole on the back nine. However, I feel like when the money is on the line I'm probably going to be more focused and as a result I will probably shoot better scores. I just don't feel like it is accurate to place odds on shooting a certain score without taking into consideration the particular scenario/course conditions/pace of play/etc.

Please don't think that I'm defending sandbaggers. I think sandbaggers are everything that is wrong with this world.

Just so you know where I'm coming from: I've only started keeping a handicap this year, and I plan on playing in a few handicapped tournaments throughout the year. The best score that I've ever shot was an 82, which just happened to be my 4th score to be posted to my handicap . So anyways, please don't label me a sandbagger based on my comment.

[connor35]

Craw? Do you use Equitable Stroke Control when figuring your handicap?

For instance as a 14 handicap, I can't take more than a 7 on any one hole. So when I have a blow up hole (or three) as you state, it's doesn't affect my handicap too badly.

For example I shot 98 Saturday in rough conditions but only used a 94 for my handicap because the 8 changes to a 7 and my 10 (ouch!) changes to a 7.

Here's your max per hole as a function of the course handicap (use your index * slope / 113 = the course handicap).


Equitable Stroke Control Chart

Course HandicapMaximum Score
0-9Double Bogey
10-197
20-298
30-399
40 or more10

[crawf061]

Yes, I do use the ESC score. Typically my blow up holes are triple bogeys though. It isn't so much the way that one score kills my round. Its the way I struggle to recover from it on the holes after it. It is not uncommon for me to follow up a triple bogey with a couple of double bogeys. I'm working on getting an even keeled attitude, but I'm not there yet.

Not all of my rounds fall into this category of falling apart on the back nine. Sometimes it will take me a few holes to get warmed up (see this rather embarrassing scorecard: http://www.loopr.com/round/show/22537 ). I guess the underlying thing here is that I am a very streaky player.

Maybe my streakiness is why I have a problem with the odds that are thrown around regarding handicaps. I feel like there may be days where I'm "in the zone" and shoot 8-10 under my handicap. Then again, that may just be wishful thinking.

Again, I will officially recieve my first handicap on friday with the next revision date. So I don't have a history of shooting below my handicap. I'm just posing the idea from my perspective.

[TourSpoon]

Yes, I do use the ESC score. Typically my blow up holes are triple bogeys though. It isn't so much the way that one score kills my round. Its the way I struggle to recover from it on the holes after it. It is not uncommon for me to follow up a triple bogey with a couple of double bogeys. I'm working on getting an even keeled attitude, but I'm not there yet.

Once you have an "established" handicap you will see that it is based on your 10 best scores, which should account for the "good streak" days. Your worst 10 are not used. If you do shoot 8-10 under your handicap, you won't do it for long because your handicap will plummet. Further, if you do this in tournament conditions, you enter your score as a "T" (tournament) score and the system will adjust your handicap more aggresively (someone else may want to clarify this because I don't know the ins and outs). My point being, once you are established and you are legitimately entering your scores using ESC, you shouldn't be shooting 8 under your handicap. Will you have flukey days, sure, but they will get figured in. The last point is that if you are having a match against a 5 and an 18, I would bet on the 5 as they have a slight advantage because the odds of them playing closer to their handicap are greater than the 18. Another way to say it is that 5s have a tighter dispersion of scores than do 18s thus making them a slightly more consistent bet.

[crawf061]

If you do shoot 8-10 under your handicap, you won't do it for long because your handicap will plummet.

Ah yes... point taken. Also, the concept of the tournament scores being taken more into account is pretty intriguing.

Basically, I don't want to be worried being called a sandbagger when I'm playing well. Considering the (positive) effect that it will have on my handicap I'm not going to worry about this anymore. My goal is to get into single-digits before the end of the year, so I guess I will have to beat my handicap regularly anyways.

[Chambokl]

JBSOONER
I'm a 12 handicap that shots 2-4 over each tourney round (-8 under my handicap). I finish in the money EVERY tourney I play. Anybody need any proshop $$$$$ I've got plenty.

Your handicap is totally wrong... You are what people call a sandbagger...

Just realized your are a JOKER...lol.

[n3xt]

From the USGA Handicap System book, section 5.1.a "If 13 or more holes are played, the player shall post an 18-hole score. If 7 to 12 holes are played, the player shall post a nine-hole score."

As for strokes to record... from section 4.1 "If a player starts but does not complete a hole or is conceded a stroke, that player shall record for handicap purposes the score he most likely would have made. The most likely score consists of the number of strokes taken plus, in the player's best judgement, the number of strokes that the player would need to complete the hole from that position more than half the time. This number may not exceed the player's Equitable Stroke Control limit, defined in section 4.3. This most likely score should be preceded by an "X". There is no limit to the number of unfinished holes a player may have in a round provided that failure to finish is not for the purpose of handicap manipulation."

Note that if you have issues with another person's handicap, you should, at the very least, voice your concerns to a member of the handicap committee. The committee has the duty and responsibility as noted in Section 8 of the Handicap system manual to examine results of competitions and take appropriate action as defined in sections 8.4 and 10.3.

As a member, it is your duty to know the rules of golf, know the rules of the USGA handicap system, and hold the officers of your club accountable. And if they won't be accountable, run against them in the next election. You'll know then if your feelings are just yours, or are shared by others.

Oh, and don't hesitate to point the handicap chairman to The Pope of Slope website noted elsewhere in these postings for how to make your future competitions more fair by instituting a version of the 'Knuth Tournament Point System' it makes sure that no one person dominates the competitions over multiple years.

And don't forget that you play this game not to make money, but to have fun first, develop relationships with your fellow golfers second, and to make some money that you can share with your fellow golfers third.

[Shindig]

Ah yes... point taken. Also, the concept of the tournament scores being taken more into account is pretty intriguing.

The finer points were already clarified for me (thanks!), but to be sure: I wasn't calling you a sandbagger by posting the odds. The "10 out of 20" rule will allow you the blowup days and fun with your friends while still maintaining the honesty. Besides, you're posting your tournament scores to your handicap (or will be when it happens), so an exceptional tournament round will be recorded. Most sandbaggers we encounter seem to not post tournament scores, or they post them as regular scores.

In conclusion: * You're not a sandbagger.

[Craig Mac]

I'm a highly variable golfer (last 4 rounds were 86, 103, 94, 97). If that 86 came in a tournament I'd probably be labelled a sandbagger when it fact the average guy doesn't understand natural variability.

As a 14 handicap if you shot 86 in a tournament I don't think anyone would consider you a sandbagger. Now if you shot even par that may make people wonder. As far as being a "variable golfer", most golfers that are mid to high handicaps are "variable golfers". It is not unlikely that a 14 handicap can shoot 100 and very easy to do so. But it is extremely unlikely that the same 14 handicap would shoot even par in a tournament.