Moe Norman

[kafka01]

http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/m...?currentPage=1

If you havent read it yet - its a must read!

[TheLauncher]

Okay, so now the question - if engineers build Iron-Byron on a one plane swing, if its easier to learn and more consistent for the avg. golfer - whats the reason that a swing like Moe Normans isnt taught way more frequently, or do i overlook here something?

The elephant in the room. And honestly I can't even begin to answer it. All I can guess is that tradition dies hard, and that the swing is perhaps just too unappealing aesthetically, if that's the right way of putting it. People are stubborn and prideful, and oftentimes would more willingly play at a lesser level the traditional way than a higher level, if it means looking different and funky. I can say that I am happy for this thread and getting to know Moe better over the last couple of days. I couldn't be more enthralled with the man and his casual, confident and totally original approach to the game. I highly recommend that those who read this thread spend a half an hour checking him out on youtube, moenorman.org and moenormangolafacademy.org (register for the best stuff). While watching him hit is truly a jaw dropping experience, watching his interviews is almost better. Moe's philosophy goes beyond the game for which many of us already see parallels to life. Though not for everyone, for lovers of the game, Moe Norman is a must know personality in my book. Would that I could shake this man's hand.

[enduro]

The elephant in the room. And honestly I can't even begin to answer it.

Pretty much. Aesthetically it isn't too appealing. And honestly, it probably isn't any easier, or harder, to master than the typical 8-piece swing Hogan published. And Hogan's technique became the standard with 100's of teachers, etc.

As well, the classic swing has done pretty well so there isn't motivation to change.

[iacas]

Pretty much. Aesthetically it isn't too appealing. And honestly, it probably isn't any easier, or harder, to master than the typical 8-piece swing Hogan published. And Hogan's technique became the standard with 100's of teachers, etc.

And Moe was never a long hitter, and while accuracy is more important than distance, it's not that easy. There are tradeoffs.

[Zeph]

He certainly was an enigma in golf. I've read a lot of statistics on him, number of hole in ones double eagles, etc. Are there any truth to this all that people have verified or was it something he told?
Has anyone ever been able to replicate his swing somewhat accurately and experience the same results? Not in terms of hole in ones, but accuracy and distance control.

He had the timing and swing path in order. Not many shots left and right from him.

[kafka01]

He certainly was an enigma in golf. I've read a lot of statistics on him, number of hole in ones double eagles, etc. Are there any truth to this all that people have verified or was it something he told?

When i first started reading this thread about Moe - it felt like reading one of those "Chuck Norris Awesomeness Joke" threads. But if you dig a bit deeper you can find enough scources that confirm lots of the stuff told here.

Emulating a swing, and "owning" it are quite different things. If i recall correctly, he claimed to hit over 5 million balls in his life time (if he would hit 500/day that would be 27 years every day!!). If you go ahead and hit that many balls you will be called one of the greatest ball strikers too. If you can achieve that goal is a completly different thing. I think Moe was lucky that he stumbled across a swing that actually puts less stress on the body so he could practice more, compared to a more traditional swing, and keep working and developing his swing without having to bother much about physical stress to the body. (I´m not a doctor, but i actually read doctors papers recommending a style of swing with less rotation to reduce stress esp. on the back.) So today i went to the range in the morning and hit a couple buckets trying to include some elements of a one plane swing into my swing - and it actually felt okay and i hit some really pure shots - then i went to play 18, where ball striking wasnt really the problem and after that i saw my pro, and we talked about it a bit. He actually was familiar with Norman style of swing and he knew that even Tiger recognised his swing. Then came the argument i always love when i go to my pro with some new idea - if this swing would be so great, why dont we see it more on tour? Well, why dont we actually see it on tour?

[enduro]

And Moe was never a long hitter, and while accuracy is more important than distance, it's not that easy. There are tradeoffs.

I suppose the greatest pro ever will figure a way to master both of these techniques.

Personally, I'm fine with the Hogan technique. It isn't too complex and relies on a few fundamentals to be executed correctly. I really think a lot of people over-complicate the golf swing. Plus, the Hogan technique draws a lot of power without much effort and if you wanted to lay off on the power for more accuracy, it isn't a thing at all. Half swings go pretty far still and almost never have straightness issues.

[Cussin hacker]

http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/m...?currentPage=1

Great read!!! What an orginial man he was.

[Zeph]

Then came the argument i always love when i go to my pro with some new idea - if this swing would be so great, why dont we see it more on tour? Well, why dont we actually see it on tour?

Moe was short, which you don't want to be on the tour today. Even with good accuracy you don't want to hit a wood into every par 4. I don't know how far he hit it, but I assume that is a part of the reason. Another is that Moe had perfect timing and movement. You can mimic a swing all you want, but it's the positions and movements from the top of the backswing to the ball that is causing most trouble, and is also what's hardest to mimic.

Most players hit stray shots, Moe seemed to have perfect control of his clubhead, keeping it square all the time. If you do this along with having a consistent swing and good impact, you'll be good at distance control. Moe owned his swing, like Ben Hogan. Many have tried to copy them, but it will never be as good as the original. Feelings and muscle pressure can't be seen and copied.

[MiniMoe]

The foremost authority on Moe's swing is without a doubt Todd and Tim Graves. They have the Grave's Academy and teach Moe's swing. Check out swinglikemoe.com There you can find a wide variety of info. about Moe. Todd learned from Moe and by reviewing and studying a lot of video of Moe. Search Todd Graves on youtube as well as Moe. There is a lot of info out there.

Moe's way of swinging the club is not the only way to deliver the club square to the ball at impact. It requires the least amount of moving parts, thus it is easier to repeat. Why is it not on tour yet? Let's examine this a little bit. The guys getting on tour now have been building their swings at country clubs across America. The pro's at those clubs do not know Moe's swing enough to be able to teach it effectively to kids at an early age. And.. do you think if you are good enough to go to college and play golf you are going to change your swing and make it 100% different than anything else you have ever learned? On top of that, making it on tour is less about ball striking than it is putting now anyway. The guys that win are the ones making the putts... plain and simple.

I see some of the changes Tiger is making in his swing. He is trying to adapt some of what Moe did to his swing to make it more simple. When his game is on, Tiger's stance is a little wider, the arms do more of the work, and the hips are under control because he keeps his right foot on the ground until well after impact. When Tiger sprays the ball, the heal of his right foot is off the ground well before impact.

Tim and Todd Graves teach Moe's swing in only 4 moves. It's pretty easy, but it does go against what most have learned their whole life, so it's hard to change. I have been working on it for over 10 years. While I don't quite "own" it yet, because I still miss a fairway once in a while, and my brain gets in my way, I can go out on any golf course and know I can find my ball a lot easier than most other players.

[Zeph]

Do you happen to have a video of your swing MiniMoe? Would've been interesting to see how it looks like. At +4 your are obviously doing something right on the course.

[whetstone]

One thing that has only been lightly touched on here is the sheer number of balls that Moe hit. I contend that anyone who hits that many balls is going to be a good ball striker, regardless of the swing they employ.

[Zeph]

If I didn't have to pay as much at the range, I'd hit a lot more balls. I hit over 1000 balls over one week once and thought it was pretty much, but it's nothing close to 4-500 a day. It cost over $65 to hit 600 balls, do this 7 days in a row and you're paying $455. That's just not an option.

[MiniMoe]

My brother has my swing on his vid camera, but has yet to get it to me.. He is a police officer and works really weird hours right now. I'm going to bug him on his next day off to get it.

Back in the day when Moe was learning his swing, he had a shag bag and would hit the balls to one end of the range, then hit them back to the front end of the range. He also did not work much during day to make time to hit all those balls.

[enduro]

If I didn't have to pay as much at the range, I'd hit a lot more balls. I hit over 1000 balls over one week once and thought it was pretty much, but it's nothing close to 4-500 a day. It cost over $65 to hit 600 balls, do this 7 days in a row and you're paying $455. That's just not an option.

Get a shag bag and 100 balls and find a place to where you can swing for free. You're often limited to using shorter clubs, but a swings a swing so w/e.

[kafka01]

Do you happen to have a video of your swing MiniMoe? Would've been interesting to see how it looks like. At +4 your are obviously doing something right on the course.

Yes i wanted to ask the same thing - that would be great.

Moe was short, which you don't want to be on the tour today. Even with good accuracy you don't want to hit a wood into every par 4. I don't know how far he hit it, but I assume that is a part of the reason.

I never found infos on that topic either, but you have to be careful, if you call somebody "short" that played like 40 years ago - just because he didnt bomb it out there 300y back then, doesnt mean its impossible to do nowadays with the new technology available (and despite that - short distances not necessarily have to come from a different swing - they can be body related - i guess Moe wasnt that much into Yoga and stretching

) . I remember reading, that he admitted, that he actually was longer in older age with newer technology than back then. MiniMoe - would you mind giving us your distances on your clubs or comparing it to distances with a more traditional swing? I think,the normal amateur struggeling around 15-20 hcp doesnt need more distance, he needs more consistency and obv. a simplified approach to the game, since he doesnt have the time to practice that much to ingrain the traditional golf swing in a reasonable amount of time to make it consistent for him.

[Zeph]

Get a shag bag and 100 balls and find a place to where you can swing for free. You're often limited to using shorter clubs, but a swings a swing so w/e.

That is an option. I do have access to huge grass fields where I could do something like that. Hitting short irons is better than nothing.

[2bGood]

One thing that has only been lightly touched on here is the sheer number of balls that Moe hit. I contend that anyone who hits that many balls is going to be a good ball striker, regardless of the swing they employ.

Did he really hit that many balls? In one of the video he says " i hit 3 million ball in my life" he looks 60+ in the video and he started play around 10. 3m/50= 60,000. 60K/365= 164 balls a day every day in his life. Granted that allot of balls but not some amazing number that other could come close to. Vijay hit 500+ ball a day 4-5 days a week, I would guess that even at his age heover the 3M mark.