NCAA Football 2021

[klineka]

58 minutes ago, HankBlue said:

The way it SHOULD be:

There are 11 conferences in FBS (counting "independents" as a conference).  Each conference champion gets a berth in the playoff plus one "at-large" bid [thus not losing the ongoing weekly debate for sportscasters].

Bottom 8, by national ranking, play each other at neutral sites (bowls?).  The four winners play the four that got a bye.  The winners of those games are your FINAL FOUR.  It's very simple.  So, why isn't this happening?  

Money, obviously.  But not just the big money at the top... the "little schools" that would never make the playoff (but go to bowls) would lose out big.

That said, under the current system, NO TEAM that is NOT a CONFRENCE CHAMPION should be in the playoff.  Because, how can you be the best team in the country, if you're not even the best team in your conference?

This is an absolutely horrible take. That is not anywhere close to the best way to determine the best team in college football. All that does is rewards schools for playing in weak conferences.

Not all conferences are equal. The top team in multiple conferences is often worse than the 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th best team in other conferences.

There are at least 6-7+ teams in both the Big Ten and the SEC alone that would be favored heavily over whoever the conference champ is from the Mountain West, the MAC, etc.

Based on your logic, one of each of the two teams like SDSU/Utah State in the Mountain West, Kent State/Northern Illinois in the MAC, and Appalachian State/Coastal Carolina in the Sun Belt would be in the playoff, and with only 1 at large bid for a non-conference champ, that means a number of very good football teams would be left out of the playoffs entirely including potential teams like Alabama, OSU, Michigan, Michigan State, Iowa, Penn State, Kentucky, Ole Miss, Oklahoma State. 

Please explain why a team like Utah State, Kent State, or Appalachian State would deserve to be in the playoff over any of those schools I just listed. Simply "Winning your conference championship" is not enough for me, not when there is such disparity between conferences. 

How does your method prove who the best team in college football is for a given season?

[saevel25]

2 hours ago, HankBlue said:

There are 11 conferences in FBS (counting "independents" as a conference).  Each conference champion gets a berth in the playoff plus one "at-large" bid [thus not losing the ongoing weekly debate for sportscasters].

Nope, not all conferences are created equal.... 

It should be teams in Power-5 conferences and a few independents if they play enough power-5 teams.  No non-power 5 conference is better than a power-5 conference. 

2 hours ago, HankBlue said:

That said, under the current system, NO TEAM that is NOT a CONFRENCE CHAMPION should be in the playoff.  Because, how can you be the best team in the country, if you're not even the best team in your conference?

The best team in the conference could miss out on the conference championship. 

What if Ohio State, beat Wisconsin during the season. Wisconsin is 9-2 versus OSU 11-0 in a rematch in the conference championship game. Wisconsin wins, is Wisconsin the best team in the conference? At best, they are equal because they are 1-1 during the season. If you throw in conference record, it is OSU with 11-1 versus 10-2. 

You should take the conference champion in each conference power-5 conference (5 teams), then for an 8-team playoff, the next best 3 teams. If a 12 team playoff, the next best 7 teams. 

 

[WilliamB]

11 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Huh?

Well I guess I didn't get my point across very well, and probably could have done a better job of stating it. My main point is that it is an ever-changing that isn't necessarily right till later in the season. I have seen teams ranked in the top 10 that I knew would not last by the time the season was over. 

AP Poll - Wikipedia

 

[Vinsk]

36 minutes ago, WilliamB said:

Well I guess I didn't get my point across very well, and probably could have done a better job of stating it. My main point is that it is an ever-changing that isn't necessarily right till later in the season. I have seen teams ranked in the top 10 that I knew would not last by the time the season was over. 

AP Poll - Wikipedia

 

Well sure. That’s because the NCAA Poll that matters doesn’t come out til November every year. The AP Poll is garbage. Of course there are changes all season but let’s face it, OU, OSU, Georgia, Alabama, and the late Clemson ( RIP) are always at the top. Most teams have to work pretty hard to get there. Some have an easier path than others. This year, OhioSt has to take on PSU, MI and MSU, OU has to play one loss OkSt, TX ( maybe Okst or Tx twice) meanwhile Cincinnati has played one game, ND. And the rest is pure cupcake heaven. Yet there they are at number two. Nonsense.

[Double Mocha Man]

Polls, schmolls.  That's because sportswriters can't look beyond the current records... with a smattering of credence given to strength of schedule.  Everybody knows my alma mater, University of Northern Colorado is the best team in the country.  Heck, their head coach is Christian MacCaffrey's father and their QB is Christian's brother.  There you go.

[HankBlue]

10 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Nope, not all conferences are created equal.... 

It should be teams in Power-5 conferences and a few independents if they play enough power-5 teams.  No non-power 5 conference is better than a power-5 conference. 

The best team in the conference could miss out on the conference championship. 

What if Ohio State, beat Wisconsin during the season. Wisconsin is 9-2 versus OSU 11-0 in a rematch in the conference championship game. Wisconsin wins, is Wisconsin the best team in the conference? At best, they are equal because they are 1-1 during the season. If you throw in conference record, it is OSU with 11-1 versus 10-2. 

You should take the conference champion in each conference power-5 conference (5 teams), then for an 8-team playoff, the next best 3 teams. If a 12 team playoff, the next best 7 teams. 

 

No team should be eliminated on opening day.  Every conference champion deserves a shot because 1983 NC STATE WOLVEPACK happens (only in the tournament because they won the ACC).  Only in college football do we decide the champions by polls.  Level the playing field and the competition will balance.

Oh, if you didn't win your conference, you still had a shot at it, didn't ya?  But ya' LOST! 🙄

[saevel25]

3 minutes ago, HankBlue said:

Every conference champion deserves a shot because 1983 NC STATE WOLVEPACK happens

1. They are in the ACC, which is a power-5 conference. 
2. You are talking about basketball
3. I have no issue with basketball allowing conference champs into a tournament that has 64+ teams 😛 Especially one were those conference champs can be something like an 8 seed. I would have HUGE issue if NCAA Basketball allowed the conference champ to take a 1 seed spot. 
4. With playoff expansion, I do not mind conference champs getting in from the POWER-5 conferences. 

It's not decided by polls, it's decided by a playoff committee. It isn't like the top 4 in the AP poll gets in. Also, NCAA basketball is very similar to football. You have a group of people, who seed the tournament. 

With 12 teams playoff, you have automatic qualifiers (conference champs for the power-5 conferences). Then you have 7 open spots. Still, the conference champs are not guaranteed to be seeded higher than the conference champs. You could have a 3-loss team win their conference championship versus an undefeated team, now one loss. Yet, that one loss team could have a higher seed in the tournament. 

 

 

[HankBlue]

Fair is fair.  Every team should have a chance on opening day.  And it will create competitive balance.

But, whatever.... keep your "committee."  I prefer to decide things between the chalk lines -- not on chalkboards. 

[klineka]

6 minutes ago, HankBlue said:

But, whatever.... keep your "committee."  I prefer to decide things between the chalk lines -- not on chalkboards. 

Yeah and I rattled off like 10+ teams who won't be conference champs that are significantly better than multiple teams who you think should be in the playoffs. 

Still waiting for an explanation why a team like Utah State or Kent State deserves to be in the playoffs over any of those non conference champ teams I listed earlier.

Still waiting for an explanation as to how your playoff method could possibly be the best way to determine the best college football team each season.

[Wanzo]

12 hours ago, klineka said:

How does your method prove who the best team in college football is for a given season?

I haven’t read this whole string but if I were ncaa football czar, this would not be my goal.  It would be to get as many fan bases believing their team has a chance to win a championship.  Like the ncaa bball tourney, it’s not the best way to prove who the best team is, but it’s super fun and entertaining.   

[HankBlue]

39 minutes ago, Wanzo said:

I haven’t read this whole string but if I were ncaa football czar, this would not be my goal.  It would be to get as many fan bases believing their team has a chance to win a championship.  Like the ncaa bball tourney, it’s not the best way to prove who the best team is, but it’s super fun and entertaining.   

The team that wins the championship in EVERY sport might not necessarily be the BEST team that year...  but they were the best team when it mattered most.

[Vinsk]

42 minutes ago, Wanzo said:

It would be to get as many fan bases believing their team has a chance to win a championship.

Many do believe that. Unfortunately believing and deserving aren’t the same thing.😄

[saevel25]

1 hour ago, Wanzo said:

Like the ncaa bball tourney, it’s not the best way to prove who the best team is, but it’s super fun and entertaining.   

Can't do it. Too many games. You already have 6 rounds in the NCAA basketball tournament. That would be half a football season. Most teams play 12 games + 2 more for the current playoff. 

[Wanzo]

7 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Can't do it. Too many games. You already have 6 rounds in the NCAA basketball tournament. That would be half a football season. Most teams play 12 games + 2 more for the current playoff. 

Sure, I agree.  My main point is I wouldn't care if the "best" team didn't win or make it to the playoff or whatever.  If a power 5 conf has a championship game that decided who gets in the CFP and, who cares if the team with the better resume and record loses missing out of the playoff.  Weird things happen in sports and that's what makes it fun.  Going into a season with only a handful of teams with a realistic chance to win the championship is not great for the sport.  The more the better.  But I'm a Missouri fan, not Alabama or Ohio State so that's probably why I feel that way.  🤷‍♂️

Edited October 29, 2021 by Wanzo

[HankBlue]

If you want to get to a point of relative parity, having a playoff system that gives every team the opportunity is the only way to go.  Plus, it's fair.

And I'm a MICHIGAN ALUM... if my team is undefeated at the end of ANY SEASON, they're in the CFP.  So, essentially, they control their own destiny.  Every team should have that chance.  A few years ago, WESTERN MICHIGAN went undefeated  I thought they should've been in the CFP.  Fair is fair.

[FYI: you coulda' beat Nebraska for us in 1997 😒]  

[saevel25]

2 hours ago, Wanzo said:

Sure, I agree.  My main point is I wouldn't care if the "best" team didn't win or make it to the playoff or whatever. 

That is counter to the NCAA basketball. There is no way the top 4 teams are not making into the tournament, even if they lose their conference championship. 

2 hours ago, Wanzo said:

If a power 5 conf has a championship game that decided who gets in the CFP and, who cares if the team with the better resume and record loses missing out of the playoff. 

Because you discredit the regular season then. 

Team A: 11-0, Playing 4 top 25 teams. 
Team B: 8-3, Playing no top 25 teams. 

Team A and B never played each other before the conference championship game. Team B beats Team A in a one game, conference championship game. 

Why should team B get rewarded with the chance to make the playoff when they took the easy road to get there. They basically just had to get up for one game They didn't even do well during the season anyways. It isn't like college basketball, where they have conference tournaments. At least, that bottom of the conference team had to play 4-5 games to make the NCAA tournament. That is Ok. It isn't a one game retry on the entire season. "Oh you loss 3-times, here is your one game retry to get into the playoff." 
 

11 minutes ago, HankBlue said:

If you want to get to a point of relative parity, having a playoff system that gives every team the opportunity is the only way to go.  Plus, it's fair.

Its not fair. You reward teams playing an easy schedule so they can have the easiest path to their conference championship game to just have to play one game to get into a playoff. 

Also, currently, every team has an opportunity. Just play your schedule and win. That's it. They are expanding to at least 12 teams. Which, gives teams who gripe about being deserving a spot, actually giving them a spot. 

I don't care about parity. If you want parity, take away scholarships. Even in an era, with the least amount of scholarships then there has been in the past, the top tier teams still are routinely winning is because players recognize that the best teams get you to the NFL. End of story. A team making it once to the tournament will not change their trajectory to getting players. 

15 minutes ago, HankBlue said:

And I'm a MICHIGAN ALUM... if my team is undefeated at the end of ANY SEASON, they're in the CFP.  So, essentially, they control their own destiny.  Every team should have that chance.  A few years ago, WESTERN MICHIGAN went undefeated  I thought they should've been in the CFP.  Fair is fair.

 I disagree with allowing Western Michigan into the playoff in 2016. Who did they play? 

A Northwestern team who went 7-6 (only beat them by 1)?
An Illinois team who went 3-9?

The rest of their schedule is against MAC Schools. Why should we reward teams who don't play similar schedules as other schools? You think they should have gotten in over Clemson, Ohio State, and Washington? 

Clemson - Played the 3rd toughest schedule
Ohio State - Played the 6th toughest schedule
Washington - Played the 53rd toughest schedule
Alabama - Played the toughest schedule
W. Michigan - Played the 114th toughest schedule

The question becomes, how would any of those other 4 teams would do against W. Michigan's schedule? They would do way better than what W. Michigan did. 

[klineka]

17 minutes ago, HankBlue said:

If you want to get to a point of relative parity, having a playoff system that gives every team the opportunity is the only way to go.  Plus, it's fair.

And I'm a MICHIGAN ALUM... if my team is undefeated at the end of ANY SEASON, they're in the CFP.  So, essentially, they control their own destiny.  Every team should have that chance. 

Just because a team is undefeated or wins their conference championship doesn't mean they deserve to be in the playoffs. Not when there is such disparity in skill level between different conferences.

And the reason that Michigan would be in the playoff at the end of any season if they're undefeated is because of the level of competition they play in their conference. 

20 minutes ago, HankBlue said:

A few years ago, WESTERN MICHIGAN went undefeated  I thought they should've been in the CFP.  Fair is fair.

Based on what logic? They beat two Big Ten teams who had a combined record of 10-15 that season.

Then in their bowl game where they played another Big Ten team who had 3 losses, WMU lost. 

So think about that. WMU couldn't even beat the 4th best team in the Big Ten that season and you think they should have been in the CFP? What is fair about that?

[HankBlue]

On numerous occasions, the National Championship was decided by ONE MEETING between two opponents.  Once, a 2-point attempt decided it.  How is that any different than a conference championship?  Win your conference or stay home.  And, if the team from the MAC, IVY, or whatever gets blown out... SO WHAT?!  They earned the shot by winning that conference.

[FYI: In 1973, an undefeated Michigan (10-0-1) didn't go to ANY bowl (because of the existing Big 10 rules at the time).]