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Posted
16 minutes ago, JuliWooli said:

No, I acknowledged his reply and only pushed him for perhaps a little more. I did realise that he was finished with me when he said I should ask my all-knowing dad. :cry:

He let you know he was done trying to help you after you made it clear you weren’t going to provide video, he told you what your problem was not, and then after telling you what your problem was... his response was dismissed by you as surely that’s not it. So yes, I think he realized very quickly he’d be wasting his time with you. Anyway, maybe someone else will try to be helpful in a way that you deem helpful without you providing an actual swing. 

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Driver: :callaway: Rogue ST  /  Woods: :tmade: Stealth 5W / Hybrid: :tmade: Stealth 25* / Irons: :ping: i500’s /  Wedges: :edel: 54*, 58*; Putter: :scotty_cameron: Futura 5  Ball: image.png Vero X1

 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, woodzie264 said:

His let you know he was done trying to help you after you made it clear you weren’t going to provide video and he told you what your problem was not, and then what your problem was only to be dismissed that his answer wasn’t correct. So yes, I think he realized very quickly he’d be wasting his time with you. Anyway, maybe someone else will try to be helpful in a way that you deem helpful without you providing an actual swing. 

I certainly didn't say his answer was incorrect. I agreed that my elbow was a work in progress and only sought a tip regarding down swing conditions.

I'm sure I was pretty clear on this.


  • Moderator
Posted

 

4 minutes ago, JuliWooli said:

I certainly didn't say his answer was incorrect.

Maybe it’s me, but that’s not how I take “surely that’s not the reason..”

again, this is all irrelevant now. No need to dwell on it. Let’s let someone bring this back on topic!

Driver: :callaway: Rogue ST  /  Woods: :tmade: Stealth 5W / Hybrid: :tmade: Stealth 25* / Irons: :ping: i500’s /  Wedges: :edel: 54*, 58*; Putter: :scotty_cameron: Futura 5  Ball: image.png Vero X1

 

 -Jonny

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Posted
11 minutes ago, woodzie264 said:

 

Maybe it’s me, but that’s not how I take “surely that’s not the reason..”

again, this is all irrelevant now. No need to dwell on it. Let’s let someone bring this back on topic!

Back on topic...

I mentioned my right elbow at the beginning and stated clearly that I was still working on it. I only suggested that I felt my problem lay in the transition or downswing.

 


  • Administrator
Posted

@JuliWooli

1 hour ago, JuliWooli said:

I'm happy to receive any advice and "The problem is your right elbow" is a throw away piece of free advice, but is it really helpful?

So my "advice" was "throw away" and not "really helpful" now? Okay.

1 hour ago, JuliWooli said:

Something more constructive like

It was the opener to a conversation, Juli.

1 hour ago, JuliWooli said:

Now that would be helpful.

Oh my.

36 minutes ago, JuliWooli said:

No, I acknowledged his reply and only pushed him for perhaps a little more.

"Surely you're wrong" (paraphrased, admittedly) isn't a great way to "push for a little more."

27 minutes ago, woodzie264 said:

He let you know he was done trying to help you after you made it clear you weren’t going to provide video, he told you what your problem was not, and then after telling you what your problem was... his response was dismissed by you as surely that’s not it. So yes, I think he realized very quickly he’d be wasting his time with you. Anyway, maybe someone else will try to be helpful in a way that you deem helpful without you providing an actual swing.

Bingo.

1 minute ago, JuliWooli said:

I mentioned my right elbow at the beginning and stated clearly that I was still working on it. I only suggested that I felt my problem lay in the transition or downswing.

It's not.

Your transition and downswing are a result of the elbow.

But again, responses are all going to be of very limited value given you won't submit a video.

Now, yes, I'm done.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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Posted
5 minutes ago, iacas said:

Your transition and downswing are a result of the elbow.

Thank you. Now we're talking. That's all you had to say.

"Fix my backswing, get it on video and post it when I do." 


Posted

Thank you - the facts and truth , as I perceive them , sometimes rub against the normal swing instruction and thereby are usually discounted as being wrong. However , I will make an attempt—-

   It is no doubt that the Right elbow is the pivot point of the golf swing ( reverse for a leftie ) , but no part of the human brain is dedicated to it’s elbows . More than 40 % is dedicated to its * dominant hands * . The other more than 40 % is dedicated to it’s head ( brain, to hear, see smell , etc; ) The hands  can’t go anywhere unless the arms take them so the arms are slave to it’s hands. If the right hand / thumb rotates 270 degrees CCW from a palm up position it’s right elbow will also rotate CCW  up and away from its torso. If the right hand / thumb rotates CW the opposite will occur. 
   You can jam you right elbow into your right hip area where it should be in a good DS and you can still easily rotate your right palm CW from a palm upward position 180 degrees to a right palm down position and this is the way the human is genetically designed and this is the problem most that causes most poor shots and bad swings. Knowledge of the human genetics design  is a major key to a successful golf swing. 
  
Good luck 
   


  • Administrator
Posted
9 minutes ago, JuliWooli said:

Thank you. Now we're talking. That's all you had to say.

"Fix my backswing, get it on video and post it when I do." 

I'd have gotten there if you hadn't just replied to say "nah, that's not it."

Why is it the person asking for the (free) help gets to dictate exactly how I'm supposed to reply, but… I can't do the same?

Maybe you should have replied "Hmmm, my right elbow, what do you mean? I'm trying to keep it off my ribs. So what do you think is wrong with what it is doing?"

Video, Juli. Still images won't help.

2 minutes ago, Lane Holt said:

Thank you - the facts and truth , as I perceive them

Facts are not "perceived."

2 minutes ago, Lane Holt said:

It is no doubt that the Right elbow is the pivot point of the golf swing ( reverse for a leftie )

Oh boy.

2 minutes ago, Lane Holt said:

It is no doubt that the Right elbow is the pivot point of the golf swing ( reverse for a leftie ) , but no part of the human brain is dedicated to it’s elbows . More than 40 % is dedicated to its * dominant hands * . The other more than 40 % is dedicated to it’s head ( brain, to hear, see smell , etc; ) The hands  can’t go anywhere unless the arms take them so the arms are slave to it’s hands. If the right hand / thumb rotates 270 degrees CCW from a palm up position it’s right elbow will also rotate CCW  up and away from its torso. If the right hand / thumb rotates CW the opposite will occur.
   You can jam you right elbow into your right hip area where it should be in a good DS and you can still easily rotate your right palm CW from a palm upward position 180 degrees to a right palm down position and this is the way the human is genetically designed and this is the problem most that causes most poor shots and bad swings. Knowledge of the human genetics design  is a major key to a successful golf swing.

This isn't helpful to her at all.

It's somehow actually less helpful than the back-and-forth semantic bullshit argument above has been.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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Posted

iacas ,

    Please explain to me your connection to this forum ? Are you the owner or designated pro authority?  I do need to know so i won’t upset you ! I need to know the rules . 
    Thanks 

 

 


Posted

I respect the desire for privacy with the face, but why the mountains in the background of the down the line shot?

Michael

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Lane Holt said:

Good luck   

Thank you @Lane Holt

I am a right handed golfer and I swing with right hand dominance. I would love you to simplify what you were saying. I'm sorry but most of it was way over my head. I recently learned how to reverse into a WIDE parking position.


  • Administrator
Posted
6 minutes ago, Lane Holt said:

Please explain to me your connection to this forum ? Are you the owner or designated pro authority?  I do need to know so i won’t upset you ! I need to know the rules.

Figure it out for yourself, Lane. It's not that difficult.

Also, there's basically nothing within the context of discussing golf that you can do that would get anywhere close to "upsetting" me.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Posted
34 minutes ago, mchepp said:

I respect the desire for privacy with the face, but why the mountains in the background of the down the line shot?

Sieht du Berge. Du bist ein Genie!

 


Posted
2 hours ago, JuliWooli said:

I'm happy to receive any advice and "The problem is your right elbow" is a throw away piece of free advice, but is it really helpful?

Something more constructive like, "Take a look at this Pat Perez video where he explains how he solved the same problem after steepening his swing. Or another video where Rick Fowler got really flat on the downswing or go to page 48 of the 'Little Red Book' where Harvey Keitel describes this common fault in detail."

Now that would be helpful.

I've been rumbled! I'm sure long before now.


  • Moderator
Posted
1 hour ago, Lane Holt said:

iacas ,

    Please explain to me your connection to this forum ? Are you the owner or designated pro authority?  I do need to know so i won’t upset you ! I need to know the rules . 
    Thanks 

 

 

Here are the rules. Please review them. Also, please don’t make unnecessary comments in other member’s threads.

https://thesandtrap.com/a/faq/

 

Scott

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  • Administrator
Posted

I hope @Patrick57 doesn't have trouble "transitioning" to life without TST yet again.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Posted

Juli,

   Our dominant hands perform millions of everyday task for us that are in our subconscious mind. We never give them a thought. However, the golf swing is NOT in our subconscious mind . It is a learned conscious task that is totally foreign and opposite to human genetics. If it was NATURAL NBA and NFL and other great PRO athletes would be leading the PGA tour . 
  Our shoulders ( upper arms ) are the most flexible joints in our body . This enables our dominant HANDS to bring food to our mouths so we could survive as humans and they will ALWAYS roll over, turn down unless we force them / teach them to perform otherwise . The DS only takes 2/10 seconds . Whatever key you choose to use must be  preprogrammed / prepared before you ever pull the shaft back . The human brain can only sort out and perform ONE ( 1 ) task in that short amount of time . So - what is that one thought to be ? Well - their is a direct connection between the brain and it’s dominant hand . The right in your case . It is responsible for dropping the entire lever system down back around behind our torso and to stay right palm upward during the entire DS . If we don’t we definitely know what is going to happen and you can see it on any range in the world . It is the turning of the torso ( inner circle ) that squares the face, not the hands !
Yes - I know this sounds radical and some will say so , but check out * Cortical Homunculus * and see where I am coming from. 
thanks for your reply .

Good luck


  • Moderator
Posted
14 minutes ago, Lane Holt said:

Juli,

   Our dominant hands perform millions of everyday task for us that are in our subconscious mind. We never give them a thought. However, the golf swing is NOT in our subconscious mind . It is a learned conscious task that is totally foreign and opposite to human genetics. If it was NATURAL NBA and NFL and other great PRO athletes would be leading the PGA tour . 
  Our shoulders ( upper arms ) are the most flexible joints in our body . This enables our dominant HANDS to bring food to our mouths so we could survive as humans and they will ALWAYS roll over, turn down unless we force them / teach them to perform otherwise . The DS only takes 2/10 seconds . Whatever key you choose to use must be  preprogrammed / prepared before you ever pull the shaft back . The human brain can only sort out and perform ONE ( 1 ) task in that short amount of time . So - what is that one thought to be ? Well - their is a direct connection between the brain and it’s dominant hand . The right in your case . It is responsible for dropping the entire lever system down back around behind our torso and to stay right palm upward during the entire DS . If we don’t we definitely know what is going to happen and you can see it on any range in the world . It is the turning of the torso ( inner circle ) that squares the face, not the hands !
Yes - I know this sounds radical and some will say so , but check out * Cortical Homunculus * and see where I am coming from. 
thanks for your reply .

Good luck

Juli was banned for being an imposter. He was a formerly banned troll who kept signing in with new usernames and from different IP addresses.

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Scott

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    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
    • Day 6 - 2025-12-25 10 minutes of swing work on the mat and net. Focus on turn and weight shift.
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