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Prior to 2019 Many clubs had the LR declaring them to be movable obstructions and if the ball moved you simply replaced it. Since 2019 they are now loose impediments but if the balls moves when you remove one, that is now a one shot penalty (the ball still has to be replaced).

Was this really thought through?


Assuming the intent of the change was for safety, I’d have to say no.  

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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  On 7/28/2021 at 6:16 PM, Rulesman said:

Was this really thought through?

Expand  

Yes. Why?

Erik J. Barzeski β€” β›³ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. πŸŒπŸΌβ€β™‚οΈ
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution β€’ Owner, The Sand Trap .com β€’ AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 β€’ WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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  On 7/28/2021 at 9:25 PM, iacas said:

Yes. Why?

Expand  

Previously the LR caused a stone to be treated like a MO in all respects. Now the rule doesn't. 

Why not?  Why shouldn't the Rule simply deem a stone in a bunker as either a LI or treat it by Rule as one? A safety conscious player could incur a penalty for being safe about a stone but not a walnut. 


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It was explained to me that they wanted people to remove stones, but not to give them so much freedom that they  could just go messing about willy nilly and moving their ball.

So, what they came up with did that.

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Erik J. Barzeski β€” β›³ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. πŸŒπŸΌβ€β™‚οΈ
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution β€’ Owner, The Sand Trap .com β€’ AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 β€’ WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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If I am understanding this correctly, I've been able to, for over two and a half years now, move stones in bunkers, as long as doing so doesn't move my ball, same as I can do on the fairway or in the rough?  

I either missed this entirely or forgot about it.   

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

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  On 7/28/2021 at 10:06 PM, Shindig said:

I either missed this entirely or forgot about it.   

Expand  

How? πŸ™‚

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Erik J. Barzeski β€” β›³ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. πŸŒπŸΌβ€β™‚οΈ
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution β€’ Owner, The Sand Trap .com β€’ AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 β€’ WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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  On 7/29/2021 at 12:18 AM, iacas said:

How? πŸ™‚

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I remember reviewing the changes in late 2018 when they were announced, but early 2019 was a stressful and difficult part of my outside-of-golf life, so I didn't get a lot of chance to reinforce it (I also ended up not following through on a golf-related commitment I had hoped to keep during that period, this is definitely my biggest regret from that part of my life). 

And my approach to bunkers has long been to just not touch anything (it helps that I'm not in bunkers that much -- something like one shot every other round or so), so the difference hasn't been important to me.

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

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  On 7/28/2021 at 9:53 PM, Rulesman said:

Previously the LR caused a stone to be treated like a MO in all respects. Now the rule doesn't. 

Why not?  Why shouldn't the Rule simply deem a stone in a bunker as either a LI or treat it by Rule as one? A safety conscious player could incur a penalty for being safe about a stone but not a walnut. 

Expand  

Oops. I should have said 'discarded cigarette lighter' rather than a walnut.


  On 7/28/2021 at 9:53 PM, Rulesman said:

Previously the LR caused a stone to be treated like a MO in all respects. Now the rule doesn't. 

Why not?  Why shouldn't the Rule simply deem a stone in a bunker as either a LI or treat it by Rule as one? A safety conscious player could incur a penalty for being safe about a stone but not a walnut. 

Expand  

Moreover, assuming that it’s considered less safe to hit larger stones, it could be perceived as discouraging a player from taking an action that could make play more safe…

There are other instances in the rules that allow for relief from unsafe conditions.  If rocks in a bunker are considered unsafe, then yeah, I was a bit surprised by that limitation.

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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Hitting a ball off a root can be β€œunsafe.” It’s not necessarily about β€œsafety.”

Erik J. Barzeski β€” β›³ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. πŸŒπŸΌβ€β™‚οΈ
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution β€’ Owner, The Sand Trap .com β€’ AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 β€’ WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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  • 2 weeks later...
  On 7/29/2021 at 10:21 PM, iacas said:

Hitting a ball off a root can be β€œunsafe.” It’s not necessarily about β€œsafety.”

Expand  

I always have had the understanding that the Local Rule about stones in bunkers was in place to protect players and bystanders from injury. Due to 1.1.2019 change various professional tours around the world expressed their desire to have that LR available again but the Ruling Bodies did not yield for reasons I personally cannot comprehend. After all, such a LR used to be allowed and very widely used, for that matter, so why no longer?

Interestingly enough, there is a Model Local Rule F-9 granting free relief from tree roots on or close to the fairway. It can be seen as a safety issue or a fairness issue or both. Sounds pretty close to the issue of stones in bunkers to me.


(edited)

Just had this bullshit happen to me today.  Hit my shot out of the bunker.  Heard a terrible sound then the ball reacted fine and went near the hole.  I then look at the bottom of my NEW edel wedge and it's all scuffed the F UP!  I'm so pissed!!!  Problem is that it was a boulder!  I told the clubhouse but doubt anything will be done..

Edited by MattM
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  On 8/8/2021 at 7:02 PM, Ruler said:

Interestingly enough, there is a Model Local Rule F-9 granting free relief from tree roots on or close to the fairway. It can be seen as a safety issue or a fairness issue or both. Sounds pretty close to the issue of stones in bunkers to me.

Expand  

The model Local Rule says nothing about safety, so…

I'm sure safety was one of the reasons for changing the bunker rule, but I didn't hear from many that it was the only or even the primary reason for the change.

Erik J. Barzeski β€” β›³ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. πŸŒπŸΌβ€β™‚οΈ
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution β€’ Owner, The Sand Trap .com β€’ AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 β€’ WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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So...is there a rule is your ball rests on a bloulder that can't be moved in the bunker?  Thats if you can know its there before you hit...Im seriously so pissed!  The bottom of my new edel 62 degree lob wedge looks terrible now!  I would think that would be considered dangerous as well!!

On another note do you guys think I could dremel the bottom of the wedge smooth without screwing up the bounce?

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