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1 hour ago, phan52 said:

IMO, the primary reason that JT was picked was because of his relationship to Zach, and I think that is unfair to other deserving players.

But what players were more deserving? Especially when factoring in the entire picture of their play (wins/results and strokes gained should be factors in evaluating their play), plus leadership, chemistry with other players, previous Ryder Cup performances, etc.

When factoring in all of that stuff do you really think Keegan was more deserving than JT?

IMO the leadership, chemistry, experience, etc that JT has was enough to bump him over the slight edge that Keegan had in play in 2023.

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@phan52, I try to reason you out of a position you didn’t reason yourself into.

You’re giving his friendship with Zach a LOT of weight, ignoring his relationship with everyone else on the team (and Keegan’s lack of one), and adding a bunch of hindsight.

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41 minutes ago, iacas said:

@phan52, I try to reason you out of a position you didn’t reason yourself into.

You’re giving his friendship with Zach a LOT of weight, ignoring his relationship with everyone else on the team (and Keegan’s lack of one), and adding a bunch of hindsight.

I am not giving the relationship the weight, the show did that. I mean, c'mon, they bunked together frequently on Tour. They were (are) tight.

Bill M

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2 hours ago, phan52 said:

I am not giving the relationship the weight, the show did that. I mean, c'mon, they bunked together frequently on Tour. They were (are) tight.

Yes you are:

5 hours ago, phan52 said:

IMO, the primary reason that JT was picked was because of his relationship to Zach…

Again:

  • JT was tight with almost everyone on the Ryder Cup team.
  • Keegan was not.
  • Chemistry matters.
  • JT played arguably better golf than Keegan on the whole.
  • JT has a better history in the Ryder Cup than Keegan.

So again… you're giving a lot of weight to what you saw on a TV show.

Also, despite being saddled with a pretty poorly playing Spieth, JT scored as many or more points than:

  • Brooks
  • Wyndham
  • Burns
  • Morikawa
  • Jordan
  • Scottie
  • Xander
  • Rickie

That's eight names, and JT himself makes nine. Three players scored more points than him.

If you want to complain about someone, complain about Scottie's pick in bold up there…

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As team captain, ZJ's job was to pick the players that give the USA the best chance to win. Why would he risk success of his team by picking his buddy JT over Bradley/Burns? I think if ZJ really thought Burns or Bradley were better for the team, they would have been on it.

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18 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

As team captain, ZJ's job was to pick the players that give the USA the best chance to win. Why would he risk success of his team by picking his buddy JT over Bradley/Burns? I think if ZJ really thought Burns or Bradley were better for the team, they would have been on it.

...Burns was on it :-D

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6 minutes ago, klineka said:

...Burns was on it :-D

Duh...Right, guess I was thinking of the discourse about Burns/Bradley/JT where Zach's decision was more of a Burns vs.  Bradley, instead of JT vs. Bradely.

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2 hours ago, iacas said:

 

If you want to complain about someone, complain about Scottie's pick in bold up there…

Burns, another guy who finished in the top ten in the FedEx Cup, while JT was watching on TV.

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(edited)
5 minutes ago, phan52 said:

Burns, another guy who finished in the top ten in the FedEx Cup, while JT was watching on TV.

Burns, another guy who won less than Keegan did, just like JT.

And JT outscored Burns in the Ryder Cup

Edited by klineka

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1 hour ago, phan52 said:

Burns, another guy who finished in the top ten in the FedEx Cup, while JT was watching on TV.

Way to ignore my post and points.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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7 minutes ago, iacas said:

Way to ignore my post and points.

You have an opinion, and I have mine. That’s all it is.

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2 minutes ago, phan52 said:

You have an opinion, and I have mine. That’s all it is.

And my opinion is based on fact and yours is based on what you think you saw on a TV show and some wild assed guessing.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
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3 minutes ago, iacas said:

And my opinion is based on fact and yours is based on what you think you saw on a TV show and some wild assed guessing.

BS. It isn’t facts. The picks are all subjective, with the final decision made by the Captain. If it were facts they would take the top 12 in points.

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2 minutes ago, phan52 said:

BS. It isn’t facts. The picks are all subjective, with the final decision made by the Captain. If it were facts they would take the top 12 in points.

Oy.

Fact: you based your opinion of whether they were super chummy based on what they chose to show you on a TV show. Zach has never said "I chose JT because I'm chummy with him and I'm not with Keegan."

More facts:

5 hours ago, iacas said:

Again:

  • JT was tight with almost everyone on the Ryder Cup team.
  • Keegan was not.
  • Chemistry matters.
  • JT played arguably better golf than Keegan on the whole.
  • JT has a better history in the Ryder Cup than Keegan.

So again… you're giving a lot of weight to what you saw on a TV show.

More facts:

5 hours ago, iacas said:

Also, despite being saddled with a pretty poorly playing Spieth, JT scored as many or more points than:

  • Brooks
  • Wyndham
  • Burns
  • Morikawa
  • Jordan
  • Scottie
  • Xander
  • Rickie

That's eight names, and JT himself makes nine. Three players scored more points than him.

There you go. The only fact you've managed to come up with is that Keegan won more than JT. So too would a player who won once and missed every other cut the rest of the year.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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2 minutes ago, iacas said:

Oy.

Fact: you based your opinion of whether they were super chummy based on what they chose to show you on a TV show. Zach has never said "I chose JT because I'm chummy with him and I'm not with Keegan."

More facts:

More facts:

There you go. The only fact you've managed to come up with is that Keegan won more than JT. So too would a player who won once and missed every other cut the rest of the year.

LOL! As if Zach would publicly say that he picked him because they were tight.
 

The picks are subjective, they are not based on “facts”. That is why they have Captains picks. The Captain has leeway to do what he wants. Like taking his bunk mate.

2 minutes ago, phan52 said:

LOL! As if Zach would publicly say that he picked him because they were tight.
 

The picks are subjective, they are not based on “facts”. That is why they have Captains picks. The Captain has leeway to do what he wants. Like taking his bunk mate.

And BTW, using results as part of your argument is hindsight. You have no way of knowing how someone else would have performed. 

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17 minutes ago, phan52 said:

LOL! As if Zach would publicly say that he picked him because they were tight.

Right, so you've got no facts here. You're relying on your interpretation of what you saw in a made-for-viewing show.

17 minutes ago, phan52 said:

The picks are subjective, they are not based on “facts”.

Ummm, that's wrong on two counts:

  • The picks are based on many things, including "facts" about how they played. At the end, it's a pick, but it's not purely subjective, and to pretend that it is… wow?
  • Those aren't the "facts" to which I have referred a few times. Pretty sure you know that, but then again, given the bullet point above… maybe not?
17 minutes ago, phan52 said:

And BTW, using results as part of your argument is hindsight. You have no way of knowing how someone else would have performed. 

He outperformed the majority of the team, so you can't really say he was a bad pick.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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9 minutes ago, phan52 said:
23 minutes ago, iacas said:

Right, so you've got no facts here. You're relying on your interpretation of what you saw in a made-for-viewing show.

Ummm, that's wrong on two counts:

  • The picks are based on many things, including "facts" about how they played. At the end, it's a pick, but it's not purely subjective, and to pretend that it is… wow?
  • Those aren't the "facts" to which I have referred a few times. Pretty sure you know that, but then again, given the bullet point above… maybe not?

He outperformed the majority of the team, so you can't really say he was a bad pick.

I never said he was a “bad” pick. I think he was the wrong pick. Just like you “think” he was the right pick. It is your opinion. 

I never said he was a “bad” pick. I think he was the wrong pick. Just like you “think” he was the right pick. It is your opinion. 

Bill M

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15 minutes ago, phan52 said:

I never said he was a “bad” pick. I think he was the wrong pick. Just like you “think” he was the right pick. It is your opinion. 

You've never actually articulated WHY you think JT was the wrong pick.

You've pointed out that Keegan won more times in 2023 than JT did, but Keegan won more than the majority of the guys on the team so that argument lacks significant merit IMO. (Especially when it's your only argument)

So why, in your opinion, was someone who was statistically the 27th best golfer on the PGA Tour last season, who has substantial Ryder Cup/Presidents Cup experience, is liked/respected by pretty much everyone in the team room, and who was showing signs of decent form (over +2.0 strokes gained in each of his last 2 tournaments prior to the Ryder Cup) the wrong pick?

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