Has Golf Etiquette Gotten Worse?

[Wade Patton]

I'm getting back into golf after a great deal of time away. Yesterday we played the nicer of the two public courses nearest my location. It has better greens and hazards, and is better kept than the other one I was "warming up" on. We had a good time and I hit some shots/putts and I hit some flops. No big dealio, that's how it goes. BUT what stood out in my mind is that the greens were pockmarked by careless/inconsiderate/ignorant (I'm not sure which) golfers leaving ball marks unrepaired.  I'd make one mark and fix three sometimes.  I pulled a shot into the sand on a par 3, got in and played great shot, and raked it all back properly--then I noticed that there were tracks in a lot of the sand. Wednesday Thursday Friday?!  Is this everywhere?  Is this because folks are pushing on other players and the pushed upon players are "retaliating" by degrading the greens and hazards conditions for the pushers (do they not realize it affects the course for days)?  I don't get it.

Golf is an game steeped in etiquette. Or at least it used to be. The point of etiquette is safety and enjoyability of the game, it's easy to learn and apply-it's manners for sport.

And they've got music blaring from some of the golf carts...

 

[Wade Patton]

Maybe this is a tired, beat up old subject, and if so I apologize for bringing it up again. It's just fresh with me.

Also if a mod could edit my title to add the missing open parenthesis before These Days, that'd be great. I missed that in my normal editing process.

[SEMI_Duffer]

There was a major influx of new golfers as a result of the Wu Flu. I suspect some of it is due to too many new golfers that weren't exposed to the game properly.  I was brought in by one of my next door neighbors. He made certain I knew the etiquette.

Part of it may be the forced pace of play due to courses sometimes being so busy.

Part of it is probably also the general increase in people simply being more self-centered these days.  Again: Particularly since the advent of the Wu Flu.  You can especially see it on the road.  Had some woman, the other day, pull out in front of me from a side street, then yell obscenities at me when I didn't stand my car on its front bumper to avoid hitting her. Never mind she gave me literally no time to do so.  I missed her, but not by a whole lot.  I see that kind of thing a lot these days.

[Brown E]

I have said that there should be a golf etiquette course similar to what other outdoor sports have for safety courses. Receive certification and a card

stating this and you get certain perks. I believe some European countries have this. 

 

[Zippo]

  On 8/20/2022 at 2:12 PM, SEMI_Duffer said:

There was a major influx of new golfers as a result of the Wu Flu.

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I assume you are referring to Covid. If so, I find your alternate naming offensive on a couple of levels. Over 1,065,515 have died from Covid in the US alone. It is definitely NOT the FLU. The other part of your name is simply insulting to a region of people most of whom had nothing to do with Covid other than to suffer from it as we did.

I play public courses. People have always left pitch marks on the green for various reasons and probably always will. I fix the ones I see easily, as do the folk I golf with, and we move on. While unraked bunkers are nice, at the level I play, it makes little difference to my game. I also rake when I'm done as much as possible. Again, I may miss a footprint now and then but not on purpose.

I also dislike the music from carts. I'd much prefer to listen to the birds and wind in the trees and the conversation of my companions. But there are lots of things I can't control on the course and music from carts is one of them so I do my best not to let that interfere with my enjoyment of the day.

[GolfLug]

There are a few threads like this. Lack of etiquette/general decency/mindfulness is as old as mankind. But I agree that there seems to be more of it or that I notice it more as I get older..😊

[Wade Patton]

I play on public courses exclusively now. I played on both BITD. Yes, I've always seen evidence of unfixed ball marks, but never so many fresh ones all the way around. Sure the grass isn't good over the whole surface but dimpling the green with ball marks won't improve that. I suppose if you never play the ball where it lies, it's not an issue?  And yes, while I'm still in practice mode, I'm taking relief from craters directly in my putting line.

I hear you on sand being a crapshoot for some, but once I learned to properly hit a sand shot lie became relevant. Greenside it can be easy, it's those long bunker shots that I find difficult, and they can go from "doable" to "pitch out only" just by one nasty footprint. 

Maybe everyone always improves their lie when not playing tourneys? Making myself play it as I find it helped me get better as a ball striker. But these days I'll take relief to avoid rocks that will damage my club-unless of course playing in a contest.

I see tracks up and down he steeper faces of the bunkers. Do they not realize this is the most difficult and disturbing way to enter/leave the beach? How do we get folks to value etiquette?  I don't want to yell about it, but to help others learn and respect the game. We don't have caddies taking care of everything behind us like the rich folks and professionals do. 

Cigarette butts in the divot sand--yup. So much information, too little smarts?

[SEMI_Duffer]

  On 8/20/2022 at 3:58 PM, GolfLug said:

There are a few threads like this. Lack of etiquette/general decency/mindfulness is as old as mankind. But I agree that there seems to be more of it or that I notice it more as I get older..😊

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True, but I don't think I'm noticing more of it just because I'm getting older, and, perhaps, more impatient.  In fact: Back before I entered the Army, then the workforce, I used to be an exceedingly laid-back guy.  I lost that somewhere along the way.  Now five years retired, I think I'm starting to get the laid-back attitude of my youth back again.  (Though I am less inclined to suffer fools .)

No, I'm fairly certain there's more of it.

 

[GolfLug]

  On 8/20/2022 at 4:23 PM, SEMI_Duffer said:

True, but I don't think I'm noticing more of it just because I'm getting older, and, perhaps, more impatient. (Though I am less inclined to suffer fools .)

No, I'm fairly certain there's more of it.

 

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Fair enough. There's probably also more beginners that are less conversant in golf etiquette after COVID. 

I think we are also going downhill in supply of patience. Interestingly it does seem to be generational, i.e., it is across the board. It's kinda non value add in eyes of the efficient time management folks. As a side effect, it seems a big ask from a lot of otherwise nice enough folks to go back and rake bunkers, fix divots, ball marks, etc. Again nothing new, but agree that there is more of it. 

Edited August 20, 2022 by GolfLug

[Double Mocha Man]

  On 8/20/2022 at 5:52 PM, GolfLug said:

Fair enough. There's probably also more beginners that are less conversant in golf etiquette after COVID. 

I think we are also going downhill in supply of patience. Interestingly it does seem to be generational, i.e., it is across the board. It's kinda non value add in eyes of the efficient time management folks. As a side effect, it seems a big ask from a lot of otherwise nice enough folks to go back and rake bunkers, fix divots, ball marks, etc. Again nothing new, but agree that there is more of it. 

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... and pandemic golfers are now giving those who never really liked raking, replacing, etc. a handy excuse not to do it.

  On 8/20/2022 at 12:44 PM, Wade Patton said:

I'm getting back into golf after a great deal of time away. Yesterday we played the nicer of the two public courses nearest my location. It has better greens and hazards, and is better kept than the other one I was "warming up" on. We had a good time and I hit some shots/putts and I hit some flops. No big dealio, that's how it goes. BUT what stood out in my mind is that the greens were pockmarked by careless/inconsiderate/ignorant (I'm not sure which) golfers leaving ball marks unrepaired.  I'd make one mark and fix three sometimes.  I pulled a shot into the sand on a par 3, got in and played great shot, and raked it all back properly--then I noticed that there were tracks in a lot of the sand. Wednesday Thursday Friday?!  Is this everywhere?  Is this because folks are pushing on other players and the pushed upon players are "retaliating" by degrading the greens and hazards conditions for the pushers (do they not realize it affects the course for days)?  I don't get it.

Golf is an game steeped in etiquette. Or at least it used to be. The point of etiquette is safety and enjoyability of the game, it's easy to learn and apply-it's manners for sport.

And they've got music blaring from some of the golf carts...

 

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Remember the Arnold Palmer TV commercials "While we're young" to speed up the pace of play.  Maybe we need ads now along the lines of "When we're respectful and tidy".  Not sure which tour pro we'd recruit for that task???

[GolfLug]

  On 8/20/2022 at 6:35 PM, Double Mocha Man said:

... and pandemic golfers are now giving those who never really liked raking, replacing, etc. a handy excuse not to do it.

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Ha ha.. yah, attitudes can be more contagious than a virus.

[Double Mocha Man]

  On 8/20/2022 at 2:12 PM, SEMI_Duffer said:

There was a major influx of new golfers as a result of the Wu Flu.

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  On 8/20/2022 at 2:12 PM, SEMI_Duffer said:

Again: Particularly since the advent of the Wu Flu.

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When you say "Wu Flu" you reveal your political bent.  Politics are frowned upon on this forum.

  On 8/20/2022 at 2:42 PM, Brown E said:

I have said that there should be a golf etiquette course similar to what other outdoor sports have for safety courses. Receive certification and a card

stating this and you get certain perks. I believe some European countries have this. 

 

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Good idea!

 

  On 8/20/2022 at 4:17 PM, Wade Patton said:

But these days I'll take relief to avoid rocks that will damage my club

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... and hopefully avoiding tree roots that will damage your wrists...

 

 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Double Mocha Man

[Wade Patton]

  On 8/20/2022 at 6:44 PM, Double Mocha Man said:

 

...

... and hopefully avoiding tree roots that will damage your wrists...

 

 

 

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Yes of course. My wrists are even older than my clubs!

[Opoponax]

Unfixed ball/pitch-marks and unraked bunkers have always been a thing and are easily dealt with. If your ball falls into a shoe or splash disturbance, then just move it out of there no closer to the whole. Then rake up your marks and the marks the a-hole made too. If you see an unrepaired pitch-mark, then fix it. It takes all of 10 seconds. 

Like the OP, I was away from the game for some 15-17 years. The big breach of etiquette is the music thing. WTF are these people thinking??? Every course, from the most basic muni to the most expensive private clubs should ban this abhorrence immediately. 

[Friz]

  On 8/20/2022 at 12:44 PM, Wade Patton said:

Is this because folks are pushing on other players and the pushed upon players are "retaliating" by degrading the greens and hazards conditions for the pushers (do they not realize it affects the course for days)?  I don't get it.
 

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I wouldn't think this would be a thing...in general I think there are just a lot of oblivious people out on the course.  Especially on public courses.  There are an awful lot of people that play that so very rarely hit greens that when they do, they just don't think about looking for their ball mark when they do.  Or they'll hit the green and it'll bound through and off the back, so the fact that their ball isn't on the green, they're not looking for ball marks.  Bunkers should be more obvious, but i think there is a similar idea that people will rake their shot, but not their footprints walking back out, just kind of oblivious.  There definitely has been an influx of new golfers recently as well, so I wouldn't necessarily assume any bad etiquette is intentional, it just may be etiquette habits haven't developed yet because their skill level hasn't allowed frequent scenarios to use it.

[Double Mocha Man]

  On 8/21/2022 at 1:05 AM, Friz said:

I wouldn't think this would be a thing...in general I think there are just a lot of oblivious people out on the course.  Especially on public courses.  There are an awful lot of people that play that so very rarely hit greens that when they do, they just don't think about looking for their ball mark when they do.  Or they'll hit the green and it'll bound through and off the back, so the fact that their ball isn't on the green, they're not looking for ball marks.  Bunkers should be more obvious, but i think there is a similar idea that people will rake their shot, but not their footprints walking back out, just kind of oblivious.  There definitely has been an influx of new golfers recently as well, so I wouldn't necessarily assume any bad etiquette is intentional, it just may be etiquette habits haven't developed yet because their skill level hasn't allowed frequent scenarios to use it.

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I bet you're a great Dad!   You see the big picture and try to understand the situation.

[Friz]

  On 8/21/2022 at 1:39 AM, Double Mocha Man said:

I bet you're a great Dad!   You see the big picture and try to understand the situation.

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Well thank you!  Unexpected compliment, but that makes me feel good.

It helps that I also play with the very type of guy I described occasionally.  He's fairly new to golf, doesn't hit things very far, and they don't always get very high.  Every now and then he'll hit that good looking shot and land on the green, and when he does he's pretty stoked about his success and not thinking about things like ball marks.  I've fixed his before and let him have his moment, and figure as he improves and those become more common, he'll start having the awareness of them himself.

[ChetlovesMer]

  On 8/20/2022 at 2:42 PM, Brown E said:

I have said that there should be a golf etiquette course similar to what other outdoor sports have for safety courses. Receive certification and a card

stating this and you get certain perks. I believe some European countries have this. 

Expand  

In the early-mid 90's I joined a course in the Netherlands and I had to pass a test such as this before I was allowed on the "real" course. If I didn't pass the test I would have been relegated to the 3-hole "practice" course. Which I thought was a pretty cool system. The trouble is a 3-hole "practice" course takes up land that generates far less revenue than the "real" course. So, I can see why it's not a common practice. 

  On 8/20/2022 at 7:43 PM, Opoponax said:

If you see an unrepaired pitch-mark, then fix it. It takes all of 10 seconds. 

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I do this all the time. I've started seeing it as an opportunity. I try to fix as many ball marks as I can on every green I play. 2 reasons:

• First, I know how to fix a pitch mark. Some people don't and having people who don't know how to fix them can be as bad or worse than somebody not fixing them.
• Second, I figure one day I'll be standing before Saint Peter and he'll be like "Gee, Chet. You're really close. I'm not sure I can let you in." And I'll be like "Hey, St. Pete, what about all those pitch marks I fixed?" And he'll be like "Yeah, you're right... Come on in."