Jump to content
IGNORED

Can Somebody Explain to Me Why Lie Angle Balanced Putters Are Important?


Recommended Posts

This video got into my youtube feed. And I watched it. 
But I'm confused why not spinning in "the revealer" is important to making putts. 

Maybe I'm oversimplifying this, but it seems to me, your hands are holding the putter. So, it isn't going to spin when you swing it. The ball isn't that heavy so as to overpower my hands when I don't hit it dead center. If the ball was so heavy as to overpower my hands when I don't hit it dead center, than certainly it would be heavy enough to overpower the lie-angle balance, right? 

Don't get me wrong. I like the demo. It's something they can show people and say "Look our putter is different." But the more I think about it the less I think this feature matters. 

I have an open mind, however. 
Let me know if there's really a benefit to this that I just don't understand. 

 

 

  • Thumbs Up 2

My bag is an ever-changing combination of clubs. 

A mix I am forever tinkering with. 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator

I looked at the video for ten seconds and immediately thought of this.
 

I am Vinz Clortho, Minion of Gozer. Buy my putter!

IMG_1365.jpeg

  • Funny 3

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator

Discuss, ask and learn about golf and clubmaking from the experts at The GolfWorks

I posted that link elsewhere. Probably in the LAB thread.

Erik J. Barzeski β€” β›³ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. πŸŒπŸΌβ€β™‚οΈ
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution β€’ Owner, The Sand Trap .com β€’ AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 β€’ WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

(edited)

Quite a few LAB putters in our league and must have hit 50 odd putts with two design variations this summer at the practice green. Also spent 30 minutes at GG messing around with it few weekends ago.

My two cents: It is disingenuous to say zero torque putters are totally placebo. Dynamically balanced lie-angle has some merit. Take a few strokes and you will quickly realize there is zero heel or toe drag  (as advertised) due to the putter head's own MOI. That's not nothing. It seems to reduce rotational hand manipulation (twist torque) to keep face square. YMMV but again, that's not nothing. Of course there is still gear effect due to off-center strikes but they are not claiming to cure that. 

The jury on the forward leaning grip is out but I certainly like the feel. Impact with slightly rising hands seems natural.

I'm not in love with it but then I have never been in love with anything about putting. The funny look is a bit off putting but I'm considering it. 

@ChetlovesMer, we use only a fraction of our power in a putting stroke and when either heel or toe lags dynamically you counter it dynamically with ever so slight more  twist 'power', which adds a degree of variability. 

IMHO nothing beats an actual trial to find out for yourself. 

Edited by GolfLug

Vishal S.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  On 12/13/2024 at 3:53 AM, iacas said:

Discuss, ask and learn about golf and clubmaking from the experts at The GolfWorks

I posted that link elsewhere. Probably in the LAB thread.

Expand  

Hmm... Somehow I missed or forgot about that thread. This is a pretty good read. Interesting indeed.

  • Like 1

My bag is an ever-changing combination of clubs. 

A mix I am forever tinkering with. 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
  On 12/13/2024 at 11:06 AM, GolfLug said:

My two cents: It is disingenuous to say zero torque putters are totally placebo. Dynamically balanced lie-angle has some merit. Take a few strokes and you will quickly realize there is zero heel or toe drag  (as advertised) due to the putter head's own MOI. That's not nothing. It seems to reduce rotational hand manipulation (twist torque) to keep face square. YMMV but again, that's not nothing. Of course there is still gear effect due to off-center strikes but they are not claiming to cure that.

Expand  

Eh. The forces and torques in even the most "toe hang" putter is incredibly small. Overcome simply by lifting the club off the ground, which is why the Revealer needs to be so well aligned and smooth.

Plus all that's said in the thread about how the Revealer isn't even possibly genuine.

I'm generally against shitty science.

  • Informative 1

Erik J. Barzeski β€” β›³ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. πŸŒπŸΌβ€β™‚οΈ
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution β€’ Owner, The Sand Trap .com β€’ AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 β€’ WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  On 12/13/2024 at 11:06 AM, GolfLug said:

IMHO nothing beats an actual trial to find out for yourself. 

Expand  

I will be very close to a PGA Superstore today. I'm going to pop in and give them a test drive.

My bag is an ever-changing combination of clubs. 

A mix I am forever tinkering with. 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

(edited)
  On 12/13/2024 at 11:45 AM, iacas said:

Plus all that's said in the thread about how the Revealer isn't even possibly genuine.

Expand  

Yeah, can't say anything about the Revealer as no experience. Went by my first hand experience with the putter as posted. 

  On 12/13/2024 at 11:45 AM, iacas said:

Overcome simply by lifting the club off the ground, 

Expand  

Lift heel like Stricker? If yes, not a fan in general but I get what you are saying.

  On 12/13/2024 at 12:39 PM, ChetlovesMer said:

I will be very close to a PGA Superstore today. I'm going to pop in and give them a test drive.

Expand  

Very interested in what you find out. I think I'm bit more easily influenced by short term trials but I thought it had merit in that it did what it claims. No more, no less.

Edited by GolfLug

Vishal S.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Okay, as I mentioned I was planning on being near the PGA Superstore and I popped in with the sole purpose of rolling putts with the LAB putter. I walked in. The saleslady said "How can I help you?" I said "I want to putt with the LAB putter." 

I tried two models: The DF2.1 and the DF3.

To me they felt about the same. The DF3 can pick up a ball, so that's cool. And would actually be the reason I'd pick it over the DF2.1. 

I did not like the forward leaning grip thing at all. Not even a little bit.

The saleslady told me that a lot of folks don't like the "press grip". Then she said something interesting. She said words to the affect that the press grip also ruins the "lie Angle Balance" thing. She said kind of what Jim Harrington said. (I'm paraphrasing here) She said that "the revealer" works based on the axis of the shaft, but then they go and install the grip on a different axis, so, it wouldn't actually work if you put the putter in the revealer based on the axis of the grip, or something like that. She went on to say she thinks that's one of the reasons why they started offering grips which keep the same axis as the revealer. So, you can get them without the shaft leaning forward and with a more traditional grip. 

Anyway, if I were to get one, I'd definitely avoid the goofy "press grip". 

I tried a few of them and the one I liked best I'd describe as okay. I'm not really a feel player, but in my opinion, they don't feel good. With your eyes closed it was really difficult to feel how well you hit it. The saleslady suggested when I use it, I should look at the hole for short putts. I tried that and immediately decided that's a terrible idea. This is most definitely a putter where you need to look at the ball when you hit it. 

But does it work? ... I have no idea. I picked up a PING PLD and a Tour Edge Wingman just to compare it. I noticed no difference in my ability to hit my line or control the distance. I spent about 10 to 15 minutes with each putter, rolling balls down a line on the green, trying to sink short and long putts, lagging up to targets etc...  (Granted I performed no scientific tests, just tried to roll a bunch of putts.) I did notice that both the PING and The Tour Edge "felt" way better. The Ping is $400, the Tour Edge is $129. The LAB is $450 to $500 for an off the shelf model and $620 for a custom built model. 

Here's what I learned, if I was going to go in and just get a putter off the shelf, I'd buy the Tour Edge Wingman. Hell, it's $129.00, it felt great off the face and I was able to hit equally as many putts with it as anything else. 

As a last note. I don't like that the custom model is $120 to $170 more. I feel like I'm getting totally screwed on that. I get it, if you were getting something that wasn't built from standard parts. But for that money you are just getting standard parts built to your spec. That feels like a very high adder. Makes me wonder if their plant could use my help in implementing some lean practices and one-piece-flow. 

Anyway, there's my review. Granted no science was used during this review, but overall I give the LAB putters a resounding "eh". 

  • Informative 2

My bag is an ever-changing combination of clubs. 

A mix I am forever tinkering with. 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
  On 12/13/2024 at 2:15 PM, GolfLug said:

Yeah, can't say anything about the Revealer as no experience. Went by my first hand experience with the putter as posted. 

Expand  

We’ve talked about it here extensively. And you have enough of a scientific background to diss out some things.

  On 12/13/2024 at 2:15 PM, GolfLug said:

Lift heel like Stricker? If yes, not a fan in general but I get what you are saying.

Expand  

No, to make a stroke!

  On 12/13/2024 at 5:16 PM, ChetlovesMer said:

The saleslady told me that a lot of folks don't like the "press grip". Then she said something interesting. She said words to the affect that the press grip also ruins the "lie Angle Balance" thing. She said kind of what Jim Harrington said. (I'm paraphrasing here) She said that "the revealer" works based on the axis of the shaft, but then they go and install the grip on a different axis, so, it wouldn't actually work if you put the putter in the revealer based on the axis of the grip, or something like that.

Expand  

Yup.

Erik J. Barzeski β€” β›³ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. πŸŒπŸΌβ€β™‚οΈ
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution β€’ Owner, The Sand Trap .com β€’ AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 β€’ WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator

@GolfLug,

You don’t need no stinking lie angle, face-balanced putter. You just need me to bet you will make the putt, preferably in the pouring rain.

  • Funny 2

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  On 12/13/2024 at 11:06 AM, GolfLug said:

My two cents: It is disingenuous to say zero torque putters are totally placebo. Dynamically balanced lie-angle has some merit. Take a few strokes and you will quickly realize there is zero heel or toe drag  (as advertised) due to the putter head's own MOI. That's not nothing. It seems to reduce rotational hand manipulation (twist torque) to keep face square. YMMV but again, that's not nothing. Of course there is still gear effect due to off-center strikes but they are not claiming to cure that. 

Expand  

Could the face balance or torque balance stuff influence a golfer, sure. It's probably minimal compared to other things. It might be like 1 putt made over 1000 putts or something. 

I think what matters more is weight distribution for distance control, and face configuration with alignment markings for lining up the putt. The rest is mostly just sales pitch stuff to stand out in my opinion. 

 

  • Thumbs Up 1

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  On 12/16/2024 at 6:07 PM, saevel25 said:

face configuration with alignment markings for lining up the putt

 

Expand  

A putter which is actually aiming where it looks to you like it's aiming is pretty helpful. 

As to LAB, I go back and forth on it - I've used them at PGA Superstore on a few occasions and it does seem to swing very easily and I don't feel like I'm having to manipulate it at all. But I'm not really comfortable springing north of $500 on one without knowing which alignment set up I need and I can't figure out an easy way to test them all. That and I'm putting pretty well with my current putter, so I should at least stick it out with that until it goes cold. The new OZ1 looks decent though. Will have to see.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  On 12/16/2024 at 8:34 PM, Ty_Webb said:

But I'm not really comfortable springing north of $500 on one without knowing which alignment set up I need and I can't figure out an easy way to test them all. That and I'm putting pretty well with my current putter, so I should at least stick it out with that until it goes cold. The new OZ1 looks decent though. Will have to see.

Expand  

For just an extra $150 you can have one custom built for you. 
They actually have a system to fit these. You take a face on video of yourself putting with some kind of vertical line in the background. (Door jam is probably most common.) Then you send them the video and they will use your height plus references from the length of the putter you use. (They tell you how to measure it.) With that and the video they build your putter just to your specifications. Look on their website under the fitting part. There's a "remote fitting" tab. 

BTW - Just to be clear, the remote fitting is actually free. But it's about $150 adder for most of the putters to get one custom built instead of an off-the-shelf model. 

My bag is an ever-changing combination of clubs. 

A mix I am forever tinkering with. 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
  On 12/17/2024 at 12:50 PM, ChetlovesMer said:

They actually have a system to fit these. You take a face on video of yourself putting with some kind of vertical line in the background. (Door jam is probably most common.) Then you send them the video and they will use your height plus references from the length of the putter you use. (They tell you how to measure it.) With that and the video they build your putter just to your specifications. Look on their website under the fitting part. There's a "remote fitting" tab. 

Expand  

Ah, yes, their super technologically accurate web cam fitting.

Oy.

I dislike liars, so I dislike LAB.

It's a bonus that their science (and fittings) are very nearly junk.

  • Funny 1
  • Informative 1

Erik J. Barzeski β€” β›³ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. πŸŒπŸΌβ€β™‚οΈ
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution β€’ Owner, The Sand Trap .com β€’ AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 β€’ WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  On 12/17/2024 at 12:50 PM, ChetlovesMer said:

For just an extra $150 you can have one custom built for you. 
They actually have a system to fit these. You take a face on video of yourself putting with some kind of vertical line in the background. (Door jam is probably most common.) Then you send them the video and they will use your height plus references from the length of the putter you use. (They tell you how to measure it.) With that and the video they build your putter just to your specifications. Look on their website under the fitting part. There's a "remote fitting" tab. 

BTW - Just to be clear, the remote fitting is actually free. But it's about $150 adder for most of the putters to get one custom built instead of an off-the-shelf model. 

Expand  

Yes I'm aware of that - they're just figuring out what lie angle and length you need. Nothing about the alignment lines.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  On 12/17/2024 at 1:06 PM, iacas said:

Ah, yes, their super technologically accurate web cam fitting.

Oy.

I dislike liars, so I dislike LAB.

It's a bonus that their science (and fittings) are very nearly junk.

Expand  

 

  On 12/17/2024 at 1:57 PM, Ty_Webb said:

Yes I'm aware of that - they're just figuring out what lie angle and length you need. Nothing about the alignment lines.

Expand  

I still feel like the $110 to $150 adder for a "custom putter" is a rip-off. It is built from standard parts.

I can understand waiting 7 weeks (according to their webpage). But the extra cost just seems high. Everyone who makes irons and or drivers will build you a "custom" driver or irons for the same price as off the shelf assuming you just want standard parts built to your spec.  

My bag is an ever-changing combination of clubs. 

A mix I am forever tinkering with. 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  On 12/17/2024 at 10:03 PM, ChetlovesMer said:

 

I still feel like the $110 to $150 adder for a "custom putter" is a rip-off. It is built from standard parts.

I can understand waiting 7 weeks (according to their webpage). But the extra cost just seems high. Everyone who makes irons and or drivers will build you a "custom" driver or irons for the same price as off the shelf assuming you just want standard parts built to your spec.  

Expand  

So I think it's that they can't just bend the shaft or hosel to get it to a new lie angle. They adjust that and it changes the weighting, so they have to then adjust all the weights to get it balanced again. I get the impression that it's a bit of an iterative process and they do it all in the US, so they're paying US labor costs to build it and make it work how it's supposed to. Whether you believe in the tech or not, I think that's a true statement.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Popular Now

  • Posts

    • Wordle 1,309 4/6 🟩🟨⬜⬜⬜ 🟩⬜⬜🟨🟨 🟩🟩🟩⬜🟩 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    • Ahh the 'gap wood'. Allegedly more control than a traditional driver and more distance than a 3-wood. While it sounds logical on paper, the more I think about it, the more I am confounded by the existence of this tool. Bit skeptical that most us weekenders that are not better than maybe a 2- handicap can effectively land in this 'uncharted' thin gap between a 3 wood and a driver with any sort of reasonable consistency. For me the venn diagram of these two traditional clubs from a control perspectives is almost a single circle given the wide (and diffused) yardage and direction spreads.  @ChetlovesMer, name her "Minnie" and maybe will hunt you some good will..😝. Kidding aside, I am interested on how it works out for you. Not too proud to be singing a different song if convinced. Have fun!
    • Wordle 1,309 3/6 ⬜⬜🟨🟨⬜ ⬜🟨⬜⬜⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    • Wordle 1,309 3/6 🟨⬜⬜⬜⬜ ⬜⬜🟨🟨🟩 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    • Wordle 1,309 3/6 ⬜⬜⬜🟨⬜ ⬜⬜🟨⬜⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩   Very surprised by my bumbling into the right word based solely on knowing one letter but not its position.
Γ—
Γ—
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...