The Spin Axis Podcast

[DeadMan]

On 7/6/2025 at 5:15 AM, iacas said:

We're doing a Mail Bag episode for episode 22… please submit your questions here or via our email or any of our social media channels.

I'd like to get five of you to ask a question, please. We'll use your first name if you're okay with that on the podcast.

In the episode when you talked about working on your own game, I think 2 of you mentioned how long of a process a swing change is. As a busy working dad, that process is really daunting! What’s your advice to people when they think that? How do you motivate people when the short term gain is small and the long term gain takes a long time?

[boogielicious]

1. What is the best way to practice short game shots if you don’t have a green available to practice on?
2. Should you also film your short game swings and putting practice?

 

 

[saevel25]

What are the best drills to practice awareness for club face control?

This one came to mind after remembering a bit from the latest release of the podcast. I also think that I have poor club face to path awareness. 

[TN94z]

With scratch being a highly sought after goal, what are the realistic chances of reaching said goal after age, 30, 40, 50, etc...? 

[Ty_Webb]

Just listened to episode 19 on grip strength. Very interesting stuff. I missed what the long drive competitors grip strength is, but presumably very high. 

I suspect that part of the correlation between grip strength and speed is that general body strength is likely correlated well with club head speed and it's difficult to do a full body workout without going to town on your grip. Deadlifts are frequently recommended as a good exercise to do for golf and for a lot of people grip strength is the limiting factor on what they can deadlift. Doing deadlifts will improve your grip strength, so quite plausibly grip strength and club head speed are both caused by making yourself stronger. 

Do you have any charts about how grip pressure changes through the swing? I'd be interested to see that. 

Lastly, last week I played a tournament round and as I played was thinking about my grip strength and I noticed I was gripping it pretty hard. Then I realized after the round (I did not play very well at all) that I had been very tense throughout my body and I'm now wondering if that tension is the cause of my poor play. I have five tournament rounds and three casual rounds in the last three months. tournament rounds are 84, 81, 80, 81, and 81. Casual rounds are 71, 70, and 72. I wonder if that's caused by tension making it past my wrists. That's a long way of saying the last little bit Erik added rang true with me. 

Great episode!

[iacas]

Michael, look at the chapter art.

[saevel25]

38 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

I suspect that part of the correlation between grip strength and speed is that general body strength is likely correlated well with club head speed and it's difficult to do a full body workout without going to town on your grip.

I disagree on this. Speed training is just moving something fast, it doesn't usually require much loading. This is why when you train for body building or upping your PB's on amount you can lift it doesn't translate to speed. Actuality they can interfere with the adaptation of one another. 

Yes, generally weightlifting will improve grip strength. In a lot of cases grip strength is a limiting factor on your PB's on increasing weight. If your hands give out at 300-lb deadlift, but your hamstrings are good for 400-lbs you will never PB. That is why most people use grips when lifting, to eliminate the grip strength issue. 

That doesn't necessarily translate to clubhead speed. 

38 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

Doing deadlifts will improve your grip strength, so quite plausibly grip strength and club head speed are both caused by making yourself stronger. 

There are plenty of golfers, who have never touched a weight, can swing fast. I think grip strength correlates because when they test PGA tour players, they have been hitting golf balls for decades. It's something that gets developed over hours and hours of practice. When the grip strength trend was going on twitter/youtube last year or what not, they tested the grip strength of MMA fighters, many can't crack 120 lbs. They work out way more than me, I crack 125 lbs+ with my off hand. My dominant hand is 165 lbs. 

You have high schoolers with 120 mph club head speed, who probably don't have that high grip strength yet. 

 

Edited July 17 by saevel25

[GolfLug]

Just my opinion but a stronger grip absolutely reduces tension from rising into wrists and above, which in turn allows a higher degree of freedom for each intra-joint segment of our multi pendulum 'system', which in turn enables a fuller club head arc and so on...

I don't think it generates speed independently though. That does not make sense.

[Ty_Webb]

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I disagree on this. Speed training is just moving something fast, it doesn't usually require much loading. This is why when you train for body building or upping your PB's on amount you can lift it doesn't translate to speed. Actuality they can interfere with the adaptation of one another. 

Yes, generally weightlifting will improve grip strength. In a lot of cases grip strength is a limiting factor on your PB's on increasing weight. If your hands give out at 300-lb deadlift, but your hamstrings are good for 400-lbs you will never PB. That is why most people use grips when lifting, to eliminate the grip strength issue. 

That doesn't necessarily translate to clubhead speed. 

There are plenty of golfers, who have never touched a weight, can swing fast. I think grip strength correlates because when they test PGA tour players, they have been hitting golf balls for decades. It's something that gets developed over hours and hours of practice. When the grip strength trend was going on twitter/youtube last year or what not, they tested the grip strength of MMA fighters, many can't crack 120 lbs. They work out way more than me, I crack 125 lbs+ with my off hand. My dominant hand is 165 lbs. 

You have high schoolers with 120 mph club head speed, who probably don't have that high grip strength yet. 

 

All of these things are possible. Couple of things to bear in mind in particular with regard to Sasho's point about a club flying out of the hands. First of all, even though a driver might have about 100lbs of force on the hands at impact at 110mph or whatever it is, most people have two hands on the club at that point (Vijay excepted, but I'm guessing his front hand was strong enough to hang on on its own), so 50 lbs per hand would be sufficient to hang on to that. Second, grips are also tapered, which helps quite a bit and they're sticky, which also helps.

It seems unlikely that grip strength limits clubhead speed because the club might come flying out of your hands, but it's possible that your brain is holding you back because it knows (or thinks) it'll be uncomfortable. I would note that on occasion, I have hit drivers well off the toe or heel and the club twists in my hands as a result. That's unpleasant and I obviously try to avoid that. Subconsciously, perhaps my mind is thinking I might do that with a faster swing, so it limits my speed somewhat. 

In short, while there are high schoolers with 120 mph club head speed, I think that's quite a ways from the norm and if their grip was stronger, perhaps they'd be at 125 mph.

40 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Just my opinion but a stronger grip absolutely reduces tension from rising into wrists and above, which in turn allows a higher degree of freedom for each intra-joint segment of our multi pendulum 'system', which in turn enables a fuller club head arc and so on...

I don't think it generates speed independently though. That does not make sense.

I don't think high grip strength generates speed. If there is something there, it is much more likely that low grip strength saps speed.

[iacas]

19 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I disagree on this. Speed training is just moving something fast, it doesn't usually require much loading.

Depends on what you mean by loading. There's load on the grip early in the backswing, transition, and at delivery. Big periods of acceleration.

19 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

That doesn't necessarily translate to clubhead speed.

Swinging fast pulls on the grip with some good amounts of force.

19 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

There are plenty of golfers, who have never touched a weight, can swing fast.

I've never touched a weight, but I can squeeze a dynamometer pretty well. I know you know a bit about weightlifting, but it's not just that.

19 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

You have high schoolers with 120 mph club head speed, who probably don't have that high grip strength yet. 

But… if they're really low, then it's going to become a limiting factor, as high swing speeds creates a lot of pull.

3 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

It seems unlikely that grip strength limits clubhead speed because the club might come flying out of your hands, but it's possible that your brain is holding you back because it knows (or thinks) it'll be uncomfortable.

Yes. It can happen. Especially with shitty worn old grips.

3 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

In short, while there are high schoolers with 120 mph club head speed, I think that's quite a ways from the norm and if their grip was stronger, perhaps they'd be at 125 mph.

Perhaps, yeah.

3 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

I don't think high grip strength generates speed. If there is something there, it is much more likely that low grip strength saps speed.

Yes.

[Ty_Webb]

10 hours ago, iacas said:

Yes. It can happen. Especially with shitty worn old grips.

Fairly soon after I started playing, my family went on a golf trip to Portugal. I was probably 16 at the time and my brother 14. It was pouring with rain and we were coming to the last hole of the round. My dad says to my brother, "make sure you hold on tight, you don't want to drop it" and my brother in classic 14 year old style says "I've got it". He proceeded to lash a driver and swoosh swoosh swoosh his driver went as it flew into a group of trees. 10 minutes we spent in there in the rain looking for his driver. Never did find it. So yes - it definitely can happen.

Actually - an interesting experiment would be to get someone to swing a club with a shitty worn old grip on it and measure their swing speed, then put a new grip on it and measure their swing speed again. Have them try to swing both as fast as they can and see if it makes a difference. If it does, I'd think it was analogous with grip strength and the possibility that your brain is putting the brakes on a little when the grip isn't as sure.

Edited July 18 by Ty_Webb
not a thought experiment - a physical one

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

If it does, I'd think it was analogous with grip strength and the possibility that your brain is putting the brakes on a little when the grip isn't as sure.

It does. Pretty sure that kind of study has been done.

Maybe even by a grip company. 🙂 

[Ty_Webb]

30 minutes ago, iacas said:

It does. Pretty sure that kind of study has been done.

Maybe even by a grip company. 🙂 

That would make sense - I just haven't seen it, although in fairness I've never made any effort to find such a study.

[Ty_Webb]

Just listened to the latest episode. Really enjoyed it - a few actionable things that could help without too much effort. 

I know there is a thread on TST about the don't accelerate the putter thing (I have it bookmarked) and I am fully sold on the concept. Just one question about it though - it's fine and dandy for most putts, but there comes a point where the putt gets long enough that I can't swing it back far enough to then have the usual acceleration profile on it. I find myself having to take it back to the maximum comfortable level and then put more hit into it to generate enough speed to hit it hard enough. Is that okay? Or would I be well served to try to figure out how to do it without accelerating like that? I guess I'd have to start turning my shoulders more and bringing the putter more around me rather than back on the normal arc. 

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

I know there is a thread on TST about the don't accelerate the putter thing (I have it bookmarked) and I am fully sold on the concept.

Yes, the chapters in the podcast link to it. 😄 

 

2 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

Just one question about it though - it's fine and dandy for most putts, but there comes a point where the putt gets long enough that I can't swing it back far enough to then have the usual acceleration profile on it.

Unless your tempo is really slow, that's going to be a HELL of a long putt. I've hit putts that would roll 120 feet with almost the same metrics (except obviously the speed of the putter head).

2 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

I find myself having to take it back to the maximum comfortable level and then put more hit into it to generate enough speed to hit it hard enough. Is that okay? Or would I be well served to try to figure out how to do it without accelerating like that? I guess I'd have to start turning my shoulders more and bringing the putter more around me rather than back on the normal arc. 

Your putting stroke might be quite a bit different than mine. I barely move my sternum. I don't rock my shoulders much at all.

[Ty_Webb]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yes, the chapters in the podcast link to it. 😄 

 

Unless your tempo is really slow, that's going to be a HELL of a long putt. I've hit putts that would roll 120 feet with almost the same metrics (except obviously the speed of the putter head).

Your putting stroke might be quite a bit different than mine. I barely move my sternum. I don't rock my shoulders much at all.

I'm generally doing it if I have a bare lie on fringe/fairway grass and a bank to go up, so I have to hit it pretty hard.

Here is a good example:

The guy in the picture is a little further away, but if you're up at the base of that hill, it's tight and often quite soft and my chipping can't handle it, so I'm putting it. If the hole is deep on the green, it could be 80-100 feet away and going up a good 6 feet high bank of fringe grass.

My hands basically reach a point where they won't go back any further without breaking the wrists. Once the wrists break, I find it challenging to not add some more oomph. I don't actually know if I'm accelerating at impact or not. My through swing is typically shorter than my backswing on these. It just feels like I'm adding force on the way down, which I know is not the ideal. 

I also know that I struggle with my distance control with heads up putting. I think that's because I calibrate how hard to hit it while watching how far back the putter goes. So if it goes a little far then I'll hold off a bit and if it doesn't go far enough then I'll hit it a bit harder. Can't do that based on eyesight while heads up so my outcomes are worse. I wonder if this is the same sort of thing as that - where I "know" I haven't taken it back far enough and it's going to take a big hit, so I hit it.

On the not rocking your shoulders, does your right arm bend on the backswing? Just trying to figure out the mechanics of it.

[iacas]

Well, that's not really a putt at that point. You could easily choose to putt that up the slope with a hybrid or something.

[Ty_Webb]

52 minutes ago, iacas said:

Well, that's not really a putt at that point. You could easily choose to putt that up the slope with a hybrid or something.

That’s totally fair. I have my chipping issues which make my putter more playable in that situation. Really just confirming that while not optimal there comes a point where if you need to use a putter (for whatever reason) then the optimal mechanics breaks down. I know I’m a sample of one. 😂