Master "Forged vs. Cast" or "Blade vs. Game-Improvement" Iron Thread

[Shorty]

5 Pro's may appeal to you more - forged, with forged feel and a players look, especially in the scoring irons.

You are only confusing the issue by sprouting nonsense about "forged feel" which as been proven over and over to be a myth.

[amac]

It's a subjective opinion. My biased, subjective opinion is that forged clubs feel better when properly struck. They, IMO, feel worse on off-center hits. Cast irons, which most GI are, have the same feel no matter where "I" hit them. I played Ping's for over 10 years. I immediately could tell a difference when I switched over to my 704CB's. Forged irons feel better to me. YMMV. amac

[sectxag06]

Originally Posted by amac

It's a subjective opinion. My biased, subjective opinion is that forged clubs feel better when properly struck. They, IMO, feel worse on off-center hits. Cast irons, which most GI are, have the same feel no matter where "I" hit them. I played Ping's for over 10 years. I immediately could tell a difference when I switched over to my 704CB's. Forged irons feel better to me. YMMV.amac

now, granted i've only recently jumped back into the game. but, i grew up playing my dad's Hogan Apex forged irons. then i went to some crappy GI irons and then onto Cobra SSI oversized. i realized i was hitting a bit farther but was way more erratic. i'm now playing AP2s and love them. not only do they provide me with feedback i was missing, more importantly they have very little offset which really messes up my swing. try the AP2s and the AP1s.

[Shorty]

now, granted i've only recently jumped back into the game. but, i grew up playing my dad's Hogan Apex forged irons. then i went to some crappy GI irons and then onto Cobra SSI oversized. i realized i was hitting a bit farther but was way more erratic. i'm now playing AP2s and love them. not only do they provide me with feedback i was missing, more importantly they have very little offset which really messes up my swing. try the AP2s and the AP1s.

Forged versus cast does not equal players club versus chunky GI A forged v cast club of same design will not feel any different.

[rustyredcab]

GET FITTED! Any clubs that fit your body and desired swing will be better than the best new sticks that don't fit.

That said, at a 10.5 handicap, it is time to get clubs that give you a feel for distance control and not extra distance. In my experience, the GI clubs I've played had wide distance variance within the same club. Some well hit 7-irons went 145, others went 160. My Mizuno JPX Pros and MP 53's are shorter than my old clubs but much more consistent. Getting that consistency coincided with getting forged clubs. Still, I'll buy the argument that is more about the design than the manufacturing process.

[amac]

Not all manufacturers forge and or cast clubs equally as well. QC is a major issue. Check this Mizuno page out. They have some great short videos explaining their process versus others. http://golf.mizunoeurope.com/forging/forgingahead.php Club selection is totally subjective. What one likes, another may dislike and for different reasons. That's why you need to hit as many different clubs as possible. I will second RUSTY and strongly recommed the fitting process. Whichever club you decide to purchase, get fitted by a good fitter. amac

[WUTiger]

Along with Super Game Improvement, the Game Improvement and Player's niches form the Golf Digest Hot List categories.

These three categories describe market niches of irons, and other clubs. So, what niche a club model falls into is not exactly determined by mathematical equation.

For example, at one time both the Callaway Big Bertha and X20 irons both were considered SGI. But, five years later the X20 equivalent, the RazrX, ends up in the GI niche.

Most forged irons end up in the Player's niche, because they are more expensive to make than cast irons, and the marketers expect that only better players will pay the extra $$$ for the the forged. One exception is the Nike VR-S Forged, which was either SGI or GI.

As others have suggested, I'm not sure what you hope to gain from this comparison... Get fitted and find what works.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by amac

Not all manufacturers forge and or cast clubs equally as well. QC is a major issue. Check this Mizuno page out. They have some great short videos explaining their process versus others.

I have seen them all several  times. It is complete nonsense, advertising  and spin.

[TJBam]

Originally Posted by WUTiger

Along with Super Game Improvement, the Game Improvement and Player's niches form the Golf Digest Hot List categories.

These three categories describe market niches of irons, and other clubs. So, what niche a club model falls into is not exactly determined by mathematical equation.

For example, at one time both the Callaway Big Bertha and X20 irons both were considered SGI. But, five years later the X20 equivalent, the RazrX, ends up in the GI niche.

Most forged irons end up in the Player's niche, because they are more expensive to make than cast irons, and the marketers expect that only better players will pay the extra $$$ for the the forged. One exception is the Nike VR-S Forged, which was either SGI or GI.

As others have suggested, I'm not sure what you hope to gain from this comparison... Get fitted and find what works.

Let me give you a cut and paste reply that I want to see.

"TJ, buying a brand new set of AP1's is totally justified.  You should do this ASAP.  They're the best irons for your game and you'll immediately take off two strokes per 9 and will be a single digit handicapper by the end of the summer."

[TJBam]

Originally Posted by Shorty

I have seen them all several  times. It is complete nonsense, advertising  and spin.

Ever since reading that Mizuno article I've come to believe that there are tiny air pockets in my irons

[amac]

I wish it were that easy! LOL. Titleist makes a fine club. I've been playing mine for the last 8 years. No complaints. I think you will be happy with the AP1's. Misshits will go farther and straighter. Solid hit shots will go farther and straighter. So, in the end, every shot should go farther and straighter! The rest is up to you. Good luck.

[rustyredcab]

Originally Posted by TJBam

Let me give you a cut and paste reply that I want to see.

"TJ, buying a brand new set of AP1's is totally justified.  You should do this ASAP.  They're the best irons for your game and you'll immediately take off two strokes per 9 and will be a single digit handicapper by the end of the summer."

When I got new irons I did quickly drop a few strokes off my handicap. My new irons felt so good when I hit the sweet spot that I wanted to do it over and over. I was like an addict. I was willing to give up distance, and with it some pride, in order to have that wonderful sweet spot feeling. I had never experienced that feeling with my old Fusions (nice clubs and more forgiving). With the Fusions, great contact felt the same as very good contact. Hard to describe but many shots felt very good and none felt awesome. And my distances were all over the place -- long to very long. I became one club SHORTER and much more consistent when I got new irons. The 75 year old guy in my group can nearly club off me on par threes. Who cares if I'm hitting 8-irons from places I used to hit pitching wedges? That rush of perfect contact, and then seeing the ball dead straight, makes it worth it. More distance is not the answer I was looking for.

Find the club that makes you addicted to good swings and you'll drop that 10.5 to a 6.5 in no time.

Are those clubs the AP1's? Only you know what feels like an addiction.

[newtogolf]

For cast irons, most people that want Titleist or Mizuno look at the AP1's and Mizuno JPX-825.  If you want forged GI, the Mizuno JPX 825 Pro's and Titleist AP2's are the top options.  I like the AP2's but don't consider them a traditional forging like the 712 CB's or Mizuno MP-64's which are probably closer in forgiveness to your current 755's.

I use the 710 AP1's as my back up set and like them a lot.  The JPX-825's are a little longer and bit more forgiving to me which is why I use them as my primary set.  If you get fit with the proper shaft you'll really enjoy the AP1's.

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by Shorty

You are only confusing the issue by sprouting nonsense about "forged feel" which as been proven over and over to be a myth.

Agree. Titlest has been doing research in how the ball sounds off the club. They found players get more information from sound than through the hands. When you start paying attention to this, you can really figure out were on the clubhead the ball is being hit by sound alone. I know when i hit towards the heel of my drive, the middle, and toe, and if i hit a ball a little fat, thin, or toed iron shots. Even putts, i can hear the difference. It really helps out with feel.

Also, golf shafts and grips influence feel a ton as well. If you switch to a softer grip, you'll get less feel. Graphite shafts, less feel to them. Also today, most companies are putting in face inserts on there irons. there casted, but they have a softer metal hitting area.

Now do all clubs feel the same, no. There are slight differences. I found Ping i20's to be very good. I personally love how mizuno's feel. There are some slight differences, does it to amount to anything playable, probably not. I rather say it instill confidence more than anything.

[dbuck]

I think there is something to that sound thing. More in a minute. I can't comment on the "feel" of forged vs cast, because I have only hit forged blades and cast cavities to any degree of experience since I have had a consistent swing. I have little experience with forged cavities or cast blades. But I can comment on forged blades vs cast cavities with regards to "feel". Any golf club has a "sweet spot" that you can identify roughly by holding the club around midway up the shaft between your fingers with the face toward you and poking the face with the tip of your pointer finger from the other hand. The sweet spot is the spot when "poked", the club swings straight back with no vibration or twisting. There is an infinitely divisible point which is the very center of this sweet spot, but for practical purposes the sweet spot is the area around this point where there is no discernible difference in the reaction of the club to the aforementioned "poke". On most forged blades, this area is not much bigger than the tip of your finger or slightly less than a US dime. On GI or super GI cavity backs, this area might approach the size of a quarter. This is created largely by redistribution of weight, and is what is called "forgiveness". The actual spot is not bigger, but the distance either direction from that spot where the strike does not produce much difference is greater. With either club, a perfect strike feels and sounds wonderful. There is almost no feeling really, but an audible crack, and it does feel like the club almost penetrates the ball. A perfect strike is a perfect strike. And with either, the less perfect the strike, the more vibration or in some casing twisting you can feel in your hands. Now this feel is definitely more in the forged blade than the cast cavity, again because the area from the spot that results in detectable difference is smaller. On older forged blades especially, the "sweet spot" was nearer the hose than the toe, hence the myth that a S---K is almost a perfect shot--it isn't. Modern technology has redistributed the weight on many clubs so that the "sweet spot" is nearer the middle of the face where many instinctively line up. So to me there is a difference in "feel" between cavity and blade in that you feel more on a closer miss with a blade than with a cavity. That can be a good thing if you can use that infomation to narrow the gap between the bad shots and good; but also frustrating if you can't.

[RJstank]

Hey guys, I'm tring to decide between getting a set of bladed irons or a set of players irons such as the ap2s. Right now I'm around a 10 handicap but I practice almost every day and want to improve as much as possible. I've heard that blades can help,improve your game if you are commited enough by providing feedback. I guess I'm wondering if a set of irons like the ap2s would also give me lots of feedback and help me out. By the way, i like to shape the ball a lot.

[Hammer 4]

Instead of asking about them here, I would suggest that you go to a golfsmith, ect. and Hit the irons that appeal to you. They can set you up on all those fancy measuring gadgets and find the most optimal clubs for you..Just my 3  cents.

BTW, welcome to TST.

[Dables]

Any players iron will give you plenty of feedback (although I'm not a fan of the new ap2) get on a monitor and hit everything