Dress Codes: Good or Bad for the Game?

[TheCassidy]

i stand pretty much around the fence area on this one...

i voted BAD but thats just because i dont think it matters what you wear i mean if your less than average, and your wearing a singlet and speedo's...then youll probably get pulled up by the police before the "groundskeeper" lol

heres why i say bad though. it was forecast for a hot day tomorrow and the weekend was supposed to be more good weather and virtually no wind. i was fiending for an escape. so i chucked some clothes in the back of my car loaded the clubs in the trunk jumped online and booked a room at a lodge in queenstown. i headed down the (4hr drive) it was about 1:30 when i arrived and i was wearing some old jeans that id cut the bottoms off, i had a blue nike polo on a jacket in case it got a bit chilly over my shoulder black mid calf socks and white nikes on my feet...and i wasnt allowed to play because of the jean shorts...they werent even tattery at the bottom i folded the bottom few inches up and safety pinned them...

thats why i voted BAD lol

[Fourputt]

i stand pretty much around the fence area on this one...

When I'm playing away from my home course, I wouldn't even consider wearing any denim. It is universally the first thing that is prohibited when a course sets a dress standard. The most common dress code you will see is "Collared shirts and no denim". To go to an unfamiliar course wearing jean shorts is just asking for trouble.

[NM Golf]

NM Golf...

Umm yes society dictates what is nice, you are correct. And again yes there is only one basic opinion as to what is considered nice. I live in the southwest where things, including mode of dress, are relaxed to say the least. Hell here people get dressed up by putting a crease in there jeans! BUT, they certainly don't wear a t-shirt with those pressed jeans. Get over yourself, do you really mean to sit here and try and tell us that there are places where bermudas and t-shirts are considered "dressed up?" Your ego astounds me. You have such a chip on your shoulder, thats why you dress the way you do, you are trying to make a point. Well, the point you're making is I am a slob.

You need to work on your reading comprehension. I made 1 statement about people judging me based on statements that have been repeated in this thread. A common theme in this thread has been that people who wear cargo shorts or people without a clean shave or perfectly trimmed beard have less manors than the poster of the comment. The rest of my thread was an in general judging which is true. People in this thread have been saying players behavior on course is related to their style of dress. (which sounds like judging to me. This has been the running theme of this thread "dress codes keep the riff raff out so they are good")

You will have to show me the replies that say "people who wear cargo shorts or people without a clean shave or perfectly trimmed beard have less manors." Again you are the one that is twisting the meaning. That is not the theme of this thread at all. The theme of this thread is dress codes on the golf course, good or bad. You seem to want to hijack this entire thread and turn it into the poor misjudged Nathan thread. Let me say it again.

Nobody cares how you dress outside the golf course.

Again work on your reading comprehension as I never said better than me. I don't think you get the fact that calling me a Slob is relative to your opinion. If I get 100 people from identical backgrounds in a room and have them judge someones appearance they will all have different opinions. How do you not get that everyone in the world does not share your exact same thoughts on the issue.

That being said, You can put as many people in a room that can fit, it still does not mean that bermudas and a t-shirt is dressing nicely. Get off of it, how you dress is your choice but it's not considered nice. Not my opinion, society's opinion. Are you really going to still argue that?

When I see people on the golf course I do not have any thought about how they are dressed. I am not like you. I play with people in full golf clothing and I play with people in gym shorts and a t-shirt. I do not care as long as they respect the course and the other players on the course.

No, you are definately not like me. And other than wishing someone would dress a little nicer and show some respect I don't worry about how people are dressed on the golf course. I am on the course to play golf, not be the fashion police.

To you and Fourputt...

Wow this speaks volumes about you. Just like I said before you dress like you do so that you can be offended. Nice ego. Let me say this, Fourputt may see your slovenly appearance as having no self respect. I disagree, I see it as having a huge chip on your shoulder. For some reason, you have an axe to grind with society as a whole, and therefore are flipping it the bird by dressing in a way contrary to its norms. Its basically equivalent to a temper tantrum.

Since your pulling numbers out of your butt Ill pull some too... your 95% is probably more like 35%. In all the course I have ever played only 1 did not allow jeans. I have played quite a few private, semi-private, and munis. Around 90% of my original thread was about this thread judging people in general but you two took it as a I am butt hurt thread cause you are talking about me.

Umm what? Butt hurt? Anyway, if you have not yet run into a problem with a course having an issue with your mode of dress then consider yourself lucky. And if you have showed up at any type of nice country club as an invited guest in a t-shirt and jeans then you are truly a fool. Thats completely disrespectful.

[nathan]

NM Golf it is pointless talking to you as you lack basic reading comprehension.


In my original post I stated that I wear cargo shorts and a collared shirt. My post was to support people who do not yet you constantly read it as me me me.
I do not have an ego problem at all.

I did speak a little about have a bit of a ragged beard and not doing much with my hair. Being that I have short hair most people would never even notice.

But anyways I am done arguing with you as it is impossible when you can not even understand what I write.

[Fourputt]

This is what you replied to my original post

Apologies for getting personal, but you are talking about your personal opinion about appearance norms, so my reply was addressed toward that.

However, my statement was not based on your self proclaimed appearance, but on your attitude. It's based on your mistaken idea that baggy cargo shorts (or worse) are "presentable" on a golf course. Are they accepted at some courses??? Yes, but that doesn't make them nice and presentable, it just means that those golf courses have low standards. The course I work at would see them as acceptable, but it still doesn't mean that you look good in them. It just means that you won't be kicked out for wearing them. There's a difference.

[nathan]

Apologies for getting personal, but you are talking about your personal opinion about appearance norms, so my reply was addressed toward that.

Apology accepted. What I have been trying to say all along is that your idea of presentable is not everyone's idea. When I was a teenager living in poverty wearing a pair of cargo shorts and a collared shirt would have been way past presentable for me. I was forced to wear hand me downs and salvation army jeans and t-shirts so that was a big step up for me. I am sure there are lots of people from many different backgrounds that feel like me, feel like you, and have way different opinions than us.

Society as whole has varying opinions on what is presentable. Some people view a guy in low cut jeans with a tight as hell t-shirt as presentable. I personally don't but I have no problem that some do. Now my main point is that the only restrictions a non private golf course should have is nothing offensive, revealing, or distracting to other golfers. Sorry I got a bit yelly but attacking my character got me a little hot. Thanks for the apology and I much prefer a calm conversation.

[Fourputt]

Now my main point is that the only restrictions a non private golf course should have is nothing offensive, revealing, or distracting to other golfers.

But this statement opens a whole new can of worms. Again it's strictly by individual preference. There are players I know who would be driven to distraction if they had to play with someone wearing baggy, wrinkled cargo shorts that hang down to mid calf, yet have no issue at all with the same person wearing a clean, neat pair of blue jeans.

The terms "offensive" and "distracting" are totally subjective in their interpretation. By the way, I grew up poor as a church mouse too. I wore dress shoes from Goodwill. I didn't have hand-me-downs very much because I was the oldest kid in the family, but I did have stuff from Goodwill, bargain basement, etc. But that didn't stop me from being raised to know what society considers well dressed. Just because I don't always buy into the norm, doesn't mean that I don't know what it is.

[JBK]

It's definitely good for the game. Golf is a game of class.

[nathan]

But this statement opens a whole new can of worms. Again it's strictly by individual preference. There are players I know who would be driven to distraction if they had to play with someone wearing baggy, wrinkled cargo shorts that hang down to mid calf, yet have no issue at all with the same person wearing a clean, neat pair of blue jeans.

Yeah I probably picked the wrong wording there. A good example of offensive was I once noticed a guy at a course wearing a swastika t-shirt. Distracting would be a guy wearing shorts so tiny his bits are hanging out the bottom or shirtless. These should be discussed by members or the users of the course and a decision reached.

What I have been trying to say is there is no norm. Opinions are so varied on something like this that there is not a norm. Society does not have a norm. However I will say that generations are a little closer to having a norm. I am 30 and my idea of presentable will usually not be similar to someone who is 50. A lot of 50 year olds on the other hand will generally have similar ideas on the matter. Neither group is wrong.

[Fat Slice]

I see the poorest, inner-city kids participating in "First Tee" events in Oakland and somehow they manage to put together nice khaki + golf shirt ensembles. They look great! Golf course dress codes don't create class divisions, they eliminate them - just like school uniforms.

[NM Golf]

NM Golf it is pointless talking to you as you lack basic reading comprehension.

My reading comprehension is just fine, I have several college degrees to prove it. You just have nothing to defend your stance. Stay on topic, personal attacks about my intelligence won't help your case.

In my original post I stated that I wear cargo shorts and a collared shirt. My post was to support people who do not yet you constantly read it as me me me.

Lets take a look back shall we?

Reading through some of your posts you think

There's an awful lot of I and me statements in there for this to be about everyone else.

Listen you started this by somehow reading into this thread that people were just running around judging everybody and thinking we were better. Again lets look back.

Sorry for the rant it just frustrates me when people think they are better people are better than someone else for such a stupid reason. Hopefully someday you will learn to get to know someone before you judge them. Who knows you might even have a new golf partner who just happens to prefer gasp jeans...

So if you really think you can come onto this forum as a newbie and post something like that and walk away scot free you are wrong. The point is

you wrote it you believe it,those are your words. Now instead of defending them you are sidestepping and saying "I am just supporting others. You just can't read." What a crock I am done with you.

[Fourputt]

Yeah I probably picked the wrong wording there. A good example of offensive was I once noticed a guy at a course wearing a swastika t-shirt. Distracting would be a guy wearing shorts so tiny his bits are hanging out the bottom or shirtless. These should be discussed by members or the users of the course and a decision reached.

But..... that part of society which plays golf DOES have a norm. That is the point of this thread, and I think you can see from the 50+ pages of relies that the majority of responders are in favor of a fairly restrictive dress code. The norm is set by the majority, thus cargo shorts, jeans, t-shirts, etc. are not within this society's idea of acceptable norms.

As for myself, I consider jeans acceptable in certain situations, but that doesn't mean that I see jeans as being within our society's norm. When I wear jeans to play, I am stepping outside of what is considered proper and normal for most serious golfers. Some courses simply set their standards below the norm and allow sub-normal apparel. That fact doesn't change the norm, it just modifies what is acceptable for that course.

[nathan]

NM Golf you quoted 1 paragraph from my original post were I did talk about me. Re read the whole thing.

This is a quote from your last post as an example of not either comprehending or fully reading my posts. I will give you more if you need it.

"Umm what? Butt hurt? Anyway, if you have not yet run into a problem with a course having an issue with your mode of dress then consider yourself lucky. And if you have showed up at any type of nice country club as an invited guest in a t-shirt and jeans then you are truly a fool. Thats completely disrespectful."

I already said that I do not wear jeans... I stated in my first post what it is that wear but you seem to miss those parts or something. What am I supposed to say to your statement about wearing jeans when I dont wear them.

Also go back and reread this thread. There is a lot of post that say course manors are tied to appearance. There are lots of threads that say not having a clean shave is offensive and means you course etiquette probably sucks.


You said "My reading comprehension is just fine, I have several college degrees to prove it. You just have nothing to defend your stance. Stay on topic, personal attacks about my intelligence won't help your case."

I was not attacking your intelligence as reading comprehension is not a measure of ones intelligence but rather ones ability to comprehend what they read. Measuring ones intelligence by college degrees is not accurate. What having several college degrees really proves is that you have a great work and study ethic which are far more important than intelligence for the most part.

Let me break apart my original statement for you


This was my the statement of my post. It does not talk about me but opinions of people in general.

"Remember that "nice" clothing is not a standard of dress but rather your personal opinion of what "nice" is. To some people dressing well is a suit. To some people its slacks and a button down shirt. To me its cargo shorts and a walmart polo. To other people its jeans and a solid color t-shirt. Who is right?"


This next part is an example of what a lot of comments in this thread are about.
"Reading through some of your posts you think I am a no mannered #@$hole just because I like cargo shorts and have a ragged beard. People should not be judged based on their clothing. It is however easy to judge someone who does that. Clothes do not make the man his actions do. I am very successful in my career and I wear shorts and funny t-shirts to work. I have a long ragged beard and my hair style is whatever comes out of the shower in the morning. That has never stopped me from promotions/raises/praise from the company I work for.

I wear what is COMFORTABLE to play in."

This next part is me explaining my frustrations with elitist attitudes. I also talk about golfers in jeans. I do not wear jeans but some of my golf buddies do. Does not mean they are bad people or have poor etiquette? They are actually quite fun to play with and I am glad I did not snub them cause they were wearing jeans.

"Sorry for the rant it just frustrates me when people think they are better people are better than someone else for such a stupid reason. Hopefully someday you will learn to get to know someone before you judge them. Who knows you might even have a new golf partner who just happens to prefer gasp jeans..."


You keep focusing on the second part when it was just an example. The first part was the concept of the entire post.

[nathan]

But..... that part of society which plays golf DOES have a norm. That is the point of this thread, and I think you can see from the 50+ pages of relies that the majority of responders are in favor of a fairly restrictive dress code. The norm is set by the majority, thus cargo shorts, jeans, t-shirts, etc. are not within this society's idea of acceptable norms.

Okay the majority of the voters in this thread are in favor of a dress code. However they are far from having a set norm of what that should be. Some people are ok with jeans. Some people are not. Some think cargo shorts are fine. Some people do not. If you go back and read peoples statements you will see they are all over the board. I am even for dress codes like I stated before but of course my rules for the code would be different than other people.

[nathan]

NM Golf I am gonna go back to your original response to me.

Come on.....What were you raised by wolves? If you have grown up with any exposure what so ever to society you have know what dressing "nice" entails, don't give me that

Ok so the theme of your first statement to me seems to be that I am either an idiot or just plain lazy because I do not agree with you.

Again with the judging thing. People are not judging you. I am not judging you. I cannot speak for everyone on this forum but I would imagine most people on here wouldn't really think anything about you. Jeez what an ego you must have to think that everyone has the all this free time necessary to go around and judge you by the way you look. We don't have the problem you do.

I never said mentioned you in my first post so I never accused you of judging me. I did use an example. Go back and re read. People talk about cargo shorts, jeans, tshirts, beards and so on being a sign of bad course manors. That sure sounds like judging on appearance to me.

Better than you? You know, I think people like you want to look like a slob so that you can think people are judging you and then you can be a martyr. Climb down off the cross there big guy and get a grip. You are not a martyr, you're just a slob. You do what you do because you are looking for a reaction, or you are rebelling, or maybe you are just lazy. I dress very nicely and I am always comfortable. Nice clothes can be comfortable too.

So now you completly misread me and resort to petty name calling. (Slob being a insulting word). What do I really do so wrong man... Wear a nice pair of cargo shorts and having bit scruffy beard is rebelling? Maybe its wearing a collared shirt. Then you imply that I may be lazy. You do not know me and you did not even catch how I dress but you are still making assumptions about me. Comfort from clothes comes from getting used to them. Not everyone is used to your style of dress. Maybe you need to come down a bit.

No one thinks they are better than you, you just choose to dress in a way that makes you feel inferior. You have a complex brought on by your own appearance. If I saw you on the street or on the golf course I wouldn't give you a second thought. You on the other hand probably see people dressed nicely and immediately think we believe we are better than you. Who has the problem here?

I do not feel and I am certainly not inferior. All people are of equal worth. I do not make assumptions based upon appearance. I give people a chance to show who they are. This has always worked out pretty well for me in the past.

[Jared]

Remember that time you posted 3 times in a row?

The original question was: Are dress codes good or bad for the game? It would appear that according to this poll, they are good for the game, by an overwhelming majority. The world is full of sports where the participants, paid and amateur, have no respect for the game, its history, or each other. IMO, dressing in what is considered standard golf attire lends itself well to respecting the game.

If the golf course you play has no dress code, you can, of course, dress however you would like. I will continue to avoid those courses, many of those types in my area have fairways in poor condition due to players not replacing divots, and nearly unplayable greens due to players not fixing their ballmarks (and 2 others).

[nathan]

NM Golf here is your second response to me.

Umm yes society dictates what is nice, you are correct. And again yes there is only one basic opinion as to what is considered nice. I live in the southwest where things, including mode of dress, are relaxed to say the least. Hell here people get dressed up by putting a crease in there jeans! BUT, they certainly don't wear a t-shirt with those pressed jeans. Get over yourself, do you really mean to sit here and try and tell us that there are places where bermudas and t-shirts are considered "dressed up?" Your ego astounds me. You have such a chip on your shoulder, thats why you dress the way you do, you are trying to make a point. Well, the point you're making is I am a slob.

I do not know what to say. You seem to believe in imaginary rules set out by society. I live in Texas. I my area wearing tight jeans with a tucked in t-shirt is considered "nice" by lots of people. I really do not get where you get this ego crap. I really do not have one. I guess I am slob in a my choice of clothing because you keep saying it and your way is the only one. The more and more I read your statements you seem to have this elitist attitude.

You will have to show me the replies that say "people who wear cargo shorts or people without a clean shave or perfectly trimmed beard have less manors." Again you are the one that is twisting the meaning. That is not the theme of this thread at all. The theme of this thread is dress codes on the golf course, good or bad. You seem to want to hijack this entire thread and turn it into the poor misjudged Nathan thread. Let me say it again.

I am not twisting the freaking meaning. Go back and re read man. There are lots of posts about this. The poll on this thread is dress codes good or bad. The theme of this thread is what the dress code should be and why.

That being said, You can put as many people in a room that can fit, it still does not mean that bermudas and a t-shirt is dressing nicely. Get off of it, how you dress is your choice but it's not considered nice. Not my opinion, society's opinion. Are you really going to still argue that?

Basically what you are saying here is you are so stuck on your opinion being right that you will never even consider anyone elses opinions. Open up a little and talk to other people.

No, you are definately not like me. And other than wishing someone would dress a little nicer and show some respect I don't worry about how people are dressed on the golf course. I am on the course to play golf, not be the fashion police.

Then why did you even respond to my post in the first place?

Wow this speaks volumes about you. Just like I said before you dress like you do so that you can be offended. Nice ego. Let me say this, Fourputt may see your slovenly appearance as having no self respect. I disagree, I see it as having a huge chip on your shoulder. For some reason, you have an axe to grind with society as a whole, and therefore are flipping it the bird by dressing in a way contrary to its norms. Its basically equivalent to a temper tantrum.

I have no axe to grind and no chip on my shoulder. My style of dress is considered just fine in my area. You are just so glued to your opinion being the only one that you can not handle people having different ones. You are the one with the ego. You are not the freaking center of the universe man.

Umm what? Butt hurt? Anyway, if you have not yet run into a problem with a course having an issue with your mode of dress then consider yourself lucky. And if you have showed up at any type of nice country club as an invited guest in a t-shirt and jeans then you are truly a fool. Thats completely disrespectful.

I already talked about this one in a previous post.

[nathan]

Another one for NM Golf.

My reading comprehension is just fine, I have several college degrees to prove it. You just have nothing to defend your stance. Stay on topic, personal attacks about my intelligence won't help your case.

Already responded in previous post.

Listen you started this by somehow reading into this thread that people were just running around judging everybody and thinking we were better. Again lets look back.

I never said everyone in this thread and I never named you. You ego is so big that everyone must be talking about you I guess. Again, you are not the center of the universe.

So if you really think you can come onto this forum as a newbie and post something like that and walk away scot free you are wrong. The point is

Oh look name calling again and elitist attitude again. There you go feel better call me a newbie. You know that being on these forums longer makes you 100% right and a smarter better person. You really seem to have this super ego and are very afraid that it will be shattered if you admit you are not at the top.