Dress Codes: Good or Bad for the Game?

[Golden]

I think it's good for the game for the most part. I personnaly don't like to have my shirt tucked in and I don't see the point of this.

Anyone know the reason for it?

[PEZGolf]

I think it's good for the game for the most part. I personnaly don't like to have my shirt tucked in and I don't see the point of this.

Personally, I think a good golf shirt looks fine either way. I prefer to tuck mine in.

[HytrewQasdfg]

Just because golf is in decline in your area, doesn't mean it is in worldwide decline. Surely all that statement does is say more about your area than golf?

My area is the United States, specificly the Atlanta, GA area which is something of a golf hot-spot in the US and has essentially been going through an economic growth boom for the last 30 years.

I found a link to an atricle that has some real numbers for what is going on with golf in the US: http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=2&aid;=138254 Since the year 2000: People that play 25 times a year - from 6.9 million down to 4.6 million. People that play 8 or more times a year - 17.7 milllion down to 16 million People that play golf at all - 30 million down to 26 million. This article also makes a point I've seen serveral other places: young people are not taking up golf. The explinations I've seen for this are: 1. The rise of video games. This has affected a lot of outdoor sports/activites as well as golf. More young people are choosing to stay inside and play video games rather than get out and do anything. 2. The univiting nature of golf. Golf has traditionally had an exclutionary side, that has put up barriers to people playing. Young people don't see why they should have to jump though hoops to pay someone to play a game. 3. Golf is viewed as an old man's game. Certainly the dress codes have contributed to this. Young people are not going to take up the sport if they fell they have to dress like an old man to play. When you consider tha the US poplulation has increased since 2000, and for most of those years the US has had a pretty good economy, you realize golf has a real problem. It's shrinking in good economic times (what will happen when bad economic times hit?) Young players are not taking up the game and replacing the older players that leave (for whatever reason, including death).

[Surefire]

My area is the United States, specificly the Atlanta, GA area which is something of a golf hot-spot in the US and has essentially been going through an economic growth boom for the last 30 years.

This is getting slightly off topic now, but why focus on the US but not the rest of the world?

Since 2000 the number of registered golfers in continental Europe has increased by 1million. I'm pretty sure the Chinese golf amrket is also having big growth. Not sure about Japan or Australia. Would be interested to know those. Another interesting stat I would like to see is how womens participation levels have changed, and whether dress codes influence this. Personally from my travels I have seen far fewer Europeans wearing jeans and wifebeaters on golf courses. This could just be where I have happened to choose to play, but whats to say that maybe the decline in numbers in the US is because of traditional players quitting because they feel standards have slipped? Suggesting that dress code is in fact good for the game.

[PEZGolf]

My area is the United States, specificly the Atlanta, GA area which is something of a golf hot-spot in the US and has essentially been going through an economic growth boom for the last 30 years.

You are right in your information about young people and golf in the US. The National Golf Foundation reports that the number of golfers and the rounds played has been stagnant for the last five years. That trend would be worse except for this: The numbers of women taking up golf have counter balanced the facts that the number of men has declined and young people are not taking up the game, like they did. The so-called "Tiger Effect" with young people has NOT materialized.

[HytrewQasdfg]

This is getting slightly off topic now, but why focus on the US but not the rest of the world?

Because the US is the center of the world.

(Although I'll have to admit that in Georgia around Masters week we do feel like we're the center of the golf world.)

Since 2000 the number of registered golfers in continental Europe has increased by 1million.

I'm glad to hear that. It would be intersting to find out what is causing an increase in Europe while the US is declining.

Another interesting stat I would like to see is how womens participation levels have changed.

My understanding it is up a little, but not much. I have thought this is an area the golf industry should concentrate on. Golf is one of the few sports that has a successful women's pro league, and where men and women can play together.

Personally from my travels I have seen far fewer Europeans wearing jeans and wifebeaters on golf courses. This could just be where I have happened to choose to play, but whats to say that maybe the decline in numbers in the US is because of traditional players quitting because they feel standards have slipped? Suggesting that dress code is in fact good for the game.

In all honesty, I think the complaints about dress here have been way overblown. They are more the exception than the rule. The fact is jeans are very uncomfortable to wear if you are playing golf in any type of heat or humidity. Anyone that plays golf more than once is going to drop the jeans in favor of lighter material.

As far the other comments I've seen about wifebeater shirts, backwards hats, cargo shorts, and basketball shirts/shorts, I've get the feeling that there is a racial element to these comments, as in the US all these are tied to a racial subculture (black/hip-hop). I'm not totally against dress codes, but I think we need to follow the lead of the restaurant industry and adopt a more common sense dress code. One that opens the doors to more people to play (and increases the customer base), but doesn't go so far as to make others on the course uncomfortable (shirts-buttoned, shoes, no shirts with rude/crude/profane graphics.)

[Surefire]

I think I'm pretty much with you really. I was just fuelling the fire from an extreme point of view.

Perhaps the poll should have an option to say you think dress code is important to the game, but the dress code should be relaxed a little?

As in your restaurant example, the old no shirt, no shoes, no service kind of rule. Although I would expect the standard to be a little more demanding than just that.

[pjsnyc]

...I'm glad to hear that. It would be intersting to find out what is causing an increase in Europe while the US is declining...

I'm sure there isn't just one reason, but one MAJOR reason is the struggling economy. I'm sorry, but the people in this thread that 'don't buy it' when it comes to the cost issue basically hit the nail on the head - they 'don't buy it'

Citing simple things like 'I can buy this and that for 20 bucks, etc' doesn't answer the fact that some people don't want to buy it for 20 bucks if their local muni doesn't require it. They spend their 20 bucks on food, gas, or whatever it is that is skyrocketing in price.

[YogiTKE]

Yes I'm sure no good golfers or fans of the game play that course.

Yes. I do consescend on somebody dressed like a slob on a golf course. If it's a muni course, at least wear something decent.

[pjsnyc]

I guess being from NYC, I had a little more faith in the rest of the golf world to accept munis for what they are at the moment. Surely anyone considering taking the game up probably wouldn't know the ins and outs of golf etiquette but that they would learn them along the way - possibly refining their dress as they play more and more. But looking down on someone at a MUNI just because of the way they dress is pretty sad. This thread continues to prove that golf is and always will be exclusive.

[YogiTKE]

I guess being from NYC, I had a little more faith in the rest of the golf world to accept munis for what they are at the moment. Surely anyone considering taking the game up probably wouldn't know the ins and outs of golf etiquette but that they would learn them along the way - possibly refining their dress as they play more and more. But looking down on someone at a MUNI just because of the way they dress is pretty sad. This thread continues to prove that golf is and always will be exclusive.

Golf isn't anymore exclusive than any other sport. What's "pretty sad" is seeing guys in tank tops or no shirts on hacking away on a municipal course. Those are usually the guys who can't play, damage things, don't replace divots or fix ball marks, and don't respect the game. They use the game of golf as a way to get away from the wife to get trashed with their buddies.

[pjsnyc]

Golf isn't anymore exclusive than any other sport. What's "pretty sad" is seeing guys in tank tops or no shirts on hacking away on a municipal course. Those are usually the guys who can't play, damage things, don't replace divots or fix ball marks, and don't respect the game. They use the game of golf as a way to get away from the wife to get trashed with their buddies.

right - golf is just as accessible as basketball or soccer..hmmmmmmm

disrespect for the game comes in all shapes and sizes - sergio's spit in the cup ring a bell? how about john daly? lets not get into that again. i guess my point is that im an advocate of making the game more accessible to the regular joe that is about to tee off for the first time at his local muni. see him not repairing ball marks? have the cojones to educate that person on the proper ways instead of running to ur computer to groan about it on a forum. as for using golf as a vehicle for getting away from the mrs? there def is a litle truth to that ;)

[YogiTKE]

right - golf is just as accessible as basketball or soccer..hmmmmmmm

Do you think some of the 60 yr old guys you see play golf would be able to competitively play basketball or soccer?

Back on subject...... Golf should not change to accomodate lazy people. If you care to learn the game, learn it properly. I was taught etiquette and rules moreso than proper mechanics. Would you play with someone who shoots 100 and replace/fix all divots/ballmarks, keeps order of play, marks their ball, and dresses nicely? Or would you rather play with a guy in jean shorts, no shirt, doesn't fix anything, turfs the course with a cart, swears loudly, but shoots 75?

[YogiTKE]

i guess my point is that im an advocate of making the game more accessible to the regular joe that is about to tee off for the first time at his local muni. see him not repairing ball marks? have the cojones to educate that person on the proper ways instead of running to ur computer to groan about it on a forum.

What does having "cojones" have anything to do with telling someone to fix their ball mark?

The guy should know he is supposed to. He should know the rules of the game. He should read the scorecard where it says to replace divots and repair ball marks.

[PEZGolf]

Golf isn't anymore exclusive than any other sport. What's "pretty sad" is seeing guys in tank tops or no shirts on hacking away on a municipal course. Those are usually the guys who can't play, damage things, don't replace divots or fix ball marks, and don't respect the game. They use the game of golf as a way to get away from the wife to get trashed with their buddies.

I agree with you. We have 30 public golf courses within a 20 mile radius of my house, and some are munis. Only one allows "characters" like those you describe play there, and it is NOT a muni. These "golfers" (and I use the term loosely) know they are allowed there so they are like a flock of crows. At all the other courses, everyone dresses appropriately, which is excellent since we market this area to tourists as being ranked #7 in the country by the National Golf Foundation for the number of good public golf courses per capita. If these "characters" were allowed on other golf courses, tourists would think that we were out of our minds in trying to convince them to come back again. I have no problem in taking some of our "guests" to any of our courses (except the one beforementioned), and know they will have a good time, and want to come back and see us again.

[Smallville]

What does having "cojones" have anything to do with telling someone to fix their ball mark?

Seeing how you want to tell them how to dress, why not take the extra step and educate these riffraff on some proper golf etiquette? And why do you keep bringing up tank tops or no shirts when I haven't seen one person on this thread think it's OK to go out like that? Again, I do not see anything wrong on a public course if the dress code does not prohibit it, to wear store-bought jeans shorts and a sleeveless T-Shirt (not cut off). These people complaining about how people are dressed need to take it up with course management and get the dress code rules changed to their liking or go somewhere that already has the strict dress code people (apparently, 83%) want so badly. It's so simple, really, You don't like the dress code at Golf Course A, then go to Golf Course B or join Country Club X. Again, I don't have a problem with dress codes in any way, I'll dress accordingly at the course I am playing. But in July, August and September in Kansas and Missouri, if I can wear a sleeveless shirt, I'm going to. AND I'll replace my divots, repair my ball marks (and at least one other, on every green), play ready golf, be quiet unless I drain a 30 footer (then the whole course might just know about it) and drive my cart properly. You can't generalize how people are going to act just because of the way they are dressed.

[pjsnyc]

Do you think some of the 60 yr old guys you see play golf would be able to competitively play basketball or soccer?

If they're physically fit enough then yes - a 60 yr old could play ball. Greg Norman's not far off from 60 and he looks like he could probably play some basketball. And who ever said anything about playing competitively? I'm under the assumption that most golfers play recreationally (as do i) with occaisional tournaments here and there. That's a pretty silly response.

I agree - some newcomers are 'lazy' when it comes to learning etiquette before stepping between the ropes. Equally 'lazy' are the people who complain about lax dress codes when they should have checked the local rules in the first place (if it was going to bother them so much). As for the type of golfer I'd rather play with? I'd play with either...then gladly inform the latter of proper etiquette. Hopefully the 75 shooter would give me poimters in mechanics in return. It's fun to be up front with people - you should try it!

[pjsnyc]

I agree with you. We have 30 public golf courses within a 20 mile radius of my house, and some are munis. Only one allows "characters" like those you describe play there, and it is NOT a muni. These "golfers" (and I use the term loosely) know they are allowed there so they are like a flock of crows. At all the other courses, everyone dresses appropriately, which is excellent since we market this area to tourists as being ranked #7 in the country by the National Golf Foundation for the number of good public golf courses per capita. If these "characters" were allowed on other golf courses, tourists would think that we were out of our minds in trying to convince them to come back again.

Glad to hear you avoid these types of places instead of going, then groaning about it