Jump to content
IGNORED

The best advice I can give higher handicappers... Course Management


Note: This thread is 5651 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

I was originally thinking (c), but with the extra info on the hole, I'm going (b). ( I actually play some par 4s this way)

For me, downhill lie over water = ball in the water.

However, driver off the deck sounds interesting. When you do inevitably hit the water, the ball may skip across and just run up the green and into the hole

Despite that aweful shot I just hit, I'm really quite bad at this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I think Joe could easily play to the level area short of the water and use his "good wedge game" from a flat lie better than trying to play a PW or 9I from a downhill lie. If we are talking about Augusta, being short is NOT an option as anything short of the putting surface rolls back into the water. Even landing on the green you had better control your backspin or you can easily spin it right back into the water with a full wedge or short iron. The half or 3/4 LW or SW is a nice shot if you have it in your game, because you aren't likely to spin it so much that you get into trouble here.

My vote is for B. (And that is how I would choose to play it too. I like my chances with a 1/2 gap wedge from 50 or 60 yards and a level lie. I'd certainly prefer it to a 9I from a downhill lie.... that's a recipe for a chunk and a splash.)

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I usually lay up to 110, pull my PW, and blade it into the pond.

A +5.2 handicap? No wonder you can hit driver off the deck.

Driver: Titleist 905T 11.5*

Hybrids: Cleveland HALO Hybrids 19*, 22*

Irons Snake Eyes Python O/S irons (I carry 5,7,9,A irons)

Wedges: Adams Tom Watson SW 56* (sometimes carry Adams Tom Watson LW 60*)

Putter: Odyssey Dual Force 2 Rossie or Tommy Armour EFT Series Model 6

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I'm frankly surprised no one said Driver off the deck... And if you paid attention... you would have realized that this was almost a facsimile of the 15th Hole at Augusta...

If you advise people to try that shot, please stop advising people. Especially us players who don't match your +5 HDCP. Just play with the good people and please don't tell us hackers what to do.

My Equipment:
Northwestern 3-, 5-, 7- and 9-wood;
Goldwin AVDP Irons (5-10 plus PW);
U.S. Golf 60 degree wedge;
See-More Putter; Bushnell Yardage Pro 1000 Rangefinder;Golflogix GPS.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


I was originally thinking (c), but with the extra info on the hole, I'm going (b). ( I actually play some par 4s this way)

Is this really something realistic or more of a joke? I have never heard of hitting a driver off the ground...

I am a new golfer though
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Is this really something realistic or more of a joke? I have never heard of hitting a driver off the ground...

I do it occasionally.... usually when it's the only way to keep the ball low enough to get out from under the trees. But it's really not that hard if you tend to hit a high ball anyway. It's a good shot to have in your bag when playing a long par 5 into a strong wind... even for a long par 4 into that wind. But I rarely use unless necessary... in normal conditions, the 3W is still an easier shot.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Is this really something realistic or more of a joke? I have never heard of hitting a driver off the ground...

I tried it once to get out from under some trees. It didn't work very well.

Despite that aweful shot I just hit, I'm really quite bad at this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


You should play to your strengths whatever they may be.

Couldn't agree more. This is the most important think about golf playing to your strengths. You hear the pros bang on about it all the time so if you are a good wedge player don't make crazy attempts at hitting that par 5 green in 2, take it easy play it close for 3 and make an easy par and give you self a shot at birdie instead of missing the green for 2 and ending up in the water and having a settle for a bogey

In my ozone bag:

905r 10.5 Graphite Design YS-6+ R
909 F2 15.5 Aldila VooDoo Fairway S
Benross VeloCT Resuce 21 Grafalloy ProLaunch Platinum R MX300s 4-PW KBS Tour S MP-T10 50/8 Chrome 54/11 and 60/7 Studio Select Newport II 35"

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Obviously, c is a good answer... but this was meant to make you think... as I said before Joe is a good wedge player.. so he could basically hit any club he wants short of the water... but there is laying up smart and laying up dumb...

I'm frankly surprised that no-one has most humbly thanked you yet for deigning to lead this short seminar for us high handicappers. With this in mind perhaps you should adopt a more sactimonious tone for your pontificating to us plebs in future.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


I'm frankly surprised

But if you plan out your strategy for each hole as carefully as he is trying to get you to do, you might be able to shave a few strokes off that 18 handicap.

There is a lot to be learned from a better than scratch player. I'll never consider myself so good that I can't accept a kernel wisdom from anyplace I can find it. Since his aim was to get people thinking about various options (not just in this scenario but in every round they play), I think that to some extent he accomplished his goal. If you don't like it, you don't have to read it.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I actually employed this strategy today. I was staring down a 215 yard shot to the flag with about a 180 yard carry over a nasty barranca (is there any other kind?). I pulled out the 19 deg hybrid...put it back in and hit two easy sand wedges to the green. I felt a lot more confident and while there was a *chance* I could have shaved off a stroke with a perfect shot on with the hybrid...for me...I was much more likely to dump it in the hazard or off into a trap.

I appreciated the post as it got me thinking.

Driver: Nike Ignite 10.5 w/ Fujikura Motore F1
2H: King Cobra
4H: Nickent 4DX
5H: Adams A3
6I 7I 8I 9I PW: Mizuno mp-57Wedges: Mizuno MP T-10 50, 54, 58 Ball: random

Link to comment
Share on other sites


The Driver off the deck was just a joke guys come on... that's one of those shots that you'll have to come to Ithaca, to see, but that's another thread entirely...

In all honesty... you all should be proud of yourselves... most people do not employ simple strategies...

In another thread I read that 20 handicappers cannot hit the ball 300+ yards... some people can just absolutely crush the ball but have no idea where it is going... I'd venture to say... I'd rather be 260 in the fairway than 320 in the trees... the point is some of you higher handicappers can hit the ball a long way... just most of your strokes are thrown away due to poor course management and inside 100 yards...

What's in Shane's Bag?     

Ball: 2022 :callaway: Chrome Soft Triple Track Driver: :callaway:Paradym Triple Diamond 8° MCA Kai’li 70s FW: :callaway:Paradym Triple Diamond  H: :callaway: Apex Pro 21 20°I (3-PW) :callaway: Apex 21 UST Recoil 95 (3), Recoil 110 (4-PW). Wedges: :callaway: Jaws Raw 50°, 54°, 60° UST Recoil 110 Putter: :odyssey: Tri-Hot 5K Triple Wide 35”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Do high handicappers shoot high because of bad course management or an inability to execute? A lot of times...even with proper course management...I still flub up the shot


In my clicgear.gif 2.0 Push Cart and callaway.gifgolf bag are - 

 

 Z-Star driver 10.5  Mashie 3 and 7 metals  Mashie 4 hyrbird  Z-Star 4-PW Irons  cleveland.gifCG Black 48, 52, 56 degree wedges  GoLo putter  upro mx+ gps

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Do high handicappers shoot high because of bad course management or an inability to execute? A lot of times...even with proper course management...I still flub up the shot

Still the use of good management that takes your other shortcomings into account

will lower your score. Anyone can chunk a pitch... it even happens to the pros (Phil Mickelson in the HSBC). Still, if you plan your strategy around your strengths and your tendencies and avoid trying the "miracle" shot, then while that occasional chunk may be frustrating, it won't be as fatal as it is if you do it after you've already taken 5 or 6 strokes just to get to that point.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

[QUOTE=onthehunt526;230438]The Driver off the deck was just a joke guys come on... that's one of those shots that you'll have to come to Ithaca, to see, but that's another thread entirely...

Apologies hunter didn't see the driver comment as a joke and thought you were taking the proverbial!!!

I was a bit OTT

Maybe I am a bit sensitive about my 18

Incidentally would really appreciate advice on playing the big dog off the fairway. At the moment I play an old 13 degree 2 wood (smaller head) for long shots off a fair lie and can generally keep it in the middle traveling round 240 on a low flight but of course the extra 25 or so from the driver would always be a help.

I'm in if you start a thread on that

Awrabest Davy
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Note: This thread is 5651 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Popular Now

  • Posts

    • 2 rounds this weekend, one at my home course and another course that I know well.   Played well for 3 of the 4 nines.    Ended up with an 80 and an 88.  Breaking it down by 9, it was 38, 42, 41, and a tough 47 where I somehow ended up with chipping/pitching shanks where I dropped at least 6 strokes on the last 6 holes.
    • Yikes, how time flies. Here we are, almost ten years later. After prioritizing family life and other things for a long time, I'm finally ready to play more golf. Grip: I came across some topics on grip and think my grip has been a bit too palmy, especially the left hand. I'm trying to get it more in the fingers and less diagonal. Setup: After a few weeks of playing, this realization came today after watching one of Erik's Covid videos. I've been standing too far from the ball, and that messes up so much. Moved closer on a short practice session and six holes today, and it felt great. It also felt familiar, so I've been there before. I went from chunking the bejesus out the wedges to much better contact. I love changes that involves no moving parts. Just a small correction on the setup and I'm hitting it better and is better suited for working on changes. I'm a few years late, but the Covid series has been very useful to get small details sorted. I've also had to revise ball position. The goal now is back of ball in the middle of the stance as the farthest back with wedges, and progressively moving forward the longer the clubs get. Haven't hit the driver yet, but inside left foot or at the toe I suppose. Full swing: It's not terrible. I noticed my hands were too low, so got that to work on. Weight forward. More of the same stuff from earlier days. Swing path is now out-in and I want the push-draw back. When I get some videos it'll be easier to tell. I've also had this idea that my tempo or flow/rhythm could improve. It's always felt rushed around the end of the backswing into the transition, where things don't line up as they should. A short pause as things settle before starting the downswing. Some lessons might be in order. Chipping and pitching: A 12-hole round this week demonstrated a severe need to practice, but also to figure out what the heck I’m trying to do. I stood over the ball with no idea of what I wanted to achieve. On a four meter chip! I was trying the locked wrists technique, which did not work at all. As usual when I need information, I look for something Erik has posted. I’ve seen the Quickie Pitching Video before, but if I got it back then, I’ve forgotten. After reviewing that topic, some other topic about chipping and most importantly, the videos on chip/pitch from his Covid series, I felt like I understood the concept. I love the idea of separating those two by what you are trying to achieve, not by distance or ball flight. With one method you use the leading edge to hit the ball first. With the other, you use the sole to slide it under the ball. I was surprised he said that he went for the pitch 90% of the time while playing. I’ve always been scared of that shot and been thinking I have to hit the ball first. Trying to slide the club under usually ended with a chunked or skulled shot. After practicing in the yard the last days I get it, and see why the pitching motion is more forgiving. It’s astounding how easy the concept and motion is. Kudos to Erik, David and anyone else involved for being an excellent students of the game and teachers. With those two videos, my short game improved leaps and bounds, without even practicing. Just getting the setup right and knowing what motions you are trying to do is a big part of improving. Soft hands and floaty swings feels so much better than a rigid “hinge and hold”, trying to fight gravity and momentum by squeezing the life out of the grip. At least how I took to understand the “hold” part. I also think the chipping motion will help in the full swing. Keeping pressure on the trigger finger to ensure the hands are leading the clubhead and not throwing it at the ball. I've also tried looking in front of the ball at times when chipping, which helps. That's something I've been doing on full swings for a long time, and can make a big difference on the ball flight. Question @iacas: You say in the videos that you want the ball somewhere near the middle of your stance, and that for pitching it's the same. On the videos you got a fairly narrow stance, where inside of the left foot is almost middle of the stance, but the ball looks more inside the left foot than middle of the stance. Is that caused by the filming angle or is the ball more towards the inside of the foot? I often hit chips and pitches from uphill and downhill lies, where a narrow stance would have me fall over. What is your thought process and setup for those shots? The lowpoint follows the upper body, around left armpit IIRC, so a ball position relative to the feet may not be in the same spot relative to the upper body with a wider stance. Practice: I've set up my nets at an indoors location where I can practice at home. I did a quick search on launch monitors (LM), but haven't decided on anything yet. We're probably buying a house in this area in the near future, so I may hold off a purchase until I see what I can get going there. At some point I'd love to get a proper setup with a LM that can be used as a simulator. Outdoors golf is not an option 4-6 months a year here, so having an indoors option would be great. That would also be a place to use the longer clubs. My nearest course is a shorter six hole course where I don't use anything longer than a 21º utility iron. To play longer 18 hole courses I have to drive 1-1.5 hours each way, which I will do now and then, but not regularly. The LM market has changed a lot since Trackman arrived, and more people are buying them for personal use, but it's still need to spend a lot of money for a decent one that can fi. track club path. The Mevo at £305 could perhaps be something to consider. Maybe they have lowered the price to get out units before a new model is launched? It is almost six years old, though perhaps modified since then. It's got limited data and obviously isn't an option as a simulator, but could provide some data when hitting into a net. I'd have to read more about it first. It has to be good enough to be useful for indoors practice. As long as I frequently hit balls on the range or course, I'll get feedback on any changes there.
    • I'm pretty good at picking targets with mid/long irons in hand, but yes lately I have been getting more aggressive than I should be, especially from 100-150. The 50-100 deficiency is mainly distance control, working on that mechanically with Evolvr, but the 100-150 is definitely a result of poor targets.  6,7,8 iron in my hand I have no problem aiming away from trouble/the flag, hitting a very committed shot to my target, but give me PW, GW, and some reason I think I need to go right at it (even though I know I shouldn't). Like here from my last round. 175 left on a short par 5 to a back right flag. Water short right and bunker long. Perfectly fine lie in sparse rough, between the jumper and downwind playing for about 10yds of help. I knew to not aim at the flag here, aimed 40 feet left of it, hit my 165 shot exactly where I was looking, easy 2 putt birdie.   But then there's this one. I had 120 left from the fairway to a semi-tucked front left flag. Not a ton of trouble around the green but the left and back rough does fall off steeper than short/right rough. For some reason I aimed right at this flag with my 120yd shot, hit it the exact proper distance but pulled it 5yds left and had a tough short sided chip. Did all I could to chip it to 8 feet and missed the putt for a bad bogey. Had I aimed directly at the middle of the green maybe 5yds right of the flag, a perfectly straight shot leaves me 20 feet tops for birdie and that same pulled shot that I hit would have left me very close to the hole.    So yeah I think the 50-100 is distance control and the 100-150 is absolutely picking better targets. I have good feels and am strong with distance control on those I just need to allow for a bigger dispersion.    This view is helpful. For the Under 25yds my proximity is almost double from the rough vs the fairway which reinforces that biggest weakness right now being inside 25yds from the rough. But then interestingly enough in the 25-50yds I'm almost equal proximity from fairway and rough, so it looks like I need to work on under 25yds from the rough and then 25-50 from the fairway. The bunker categories are only 1 attempt each so not worried about those.   Thanks as always for the insight, it's been helpful. I'm really liking ShotScope so far.
    • Wordle 1,053 4/6 🟨⬜⬜⬜🟨 🟨🟨⬜🟨⬜ 🟨⬜🟩⬜🟨 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    • Yea it is. A gave my brother a set of cobra irons at least a decade old and he walked away with 29 dollars worth of skin money the other day. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...