Hacker or Player

[DrivingRangeJunkie]

I'll find this out for myself today.

[Hackerpratt]

I don't know about the word hacker and it is a little relative to the other "golfers" involved, but I can give you my thoughts on who a player is....

He/she can go out and compete with anyone (excluding PGA players) without a HDCP. Just put the tee in the ground and play straight up.

[Pablo McGheesio]

I think I WAS a player.....when I was 16 I played off 8. I was improving pretty well, then life got in the way.

I mean Sunday morining Junior medals are a bad idea for a kid who just got into girls and partys. haha... I lost my passion and never really played untill last year again. Got my handicap under 10 this year again, but I dont consider myself a player yet. I dont have the touch around the greens I once had....I hit the ball miles further but lack something, I dont know where to look to find it.

I assume I need to play more, once a week at best is just not enough to stay single figures. Sometimes I only get one round in a month.

[lumpuckeroo]

I agree with fourputt, state of mind. I think what makes you a player is if people like playing golf with you. Especailly when you play with people you may not necessary know, I think enjoying the game and making the game enjoyable for others is the definition of a player.

[allin]

good summary

I would define a player as someone who knows and can execute specific shots under pressure in relation to their ability. Put, chip, hit it in the fairway etc. A golfer who worries about whether someone else considers them a hacker is not focused on becoming a better golfer. After all defining it by handicap only would mean that Sam Snead in the last few years of his life was a hacker. A player can play close to their current potential / ability under pressure. A hacker can't. For me middle of the green on a par 3 to win a match is solid. Just on the green for a 18+ and 10 feet from the hole for a low handicap are really equivalent. Each has played to their current ability or potential.

[Norm3333]

Enough of the touchy feely BS.

I would love to consider myself a "player", but I am not yet.

A "player" is someone that can score low relative to others. It has nothing to do with how hard you try or how much you play. I am sick of this "everyone gets a trophy" attitude.

Saying that you are a player because you try hard or really love the game, doesn't make you a player.

IMO:

Player = handicap < 5
golfer = handicap > 5 < 15
decent = handicap > 15 < 25
hacker = handicap > 25

I don't blame < 5 handicaps for not wanting to be lumped in with me.
I am a 9.8. I am not a player yet. When I get it < 5 then I will consider myself to be a player. Until then, I won't call myself or others in my handicap a "player" just because we want to be.

[Brakkus]

Definition: A very bad player. Somewhat synonymous with "duffer" in that they both apply to poor players. But "duffer" is sometimes used to denote weaker players in general, while "hacker" is often applied to a single golfer as an insult. Hacker is a little bit stronger than duffer, in other words.
Also Known As: Hack, hacking, hacking it, duffer, weekend hacker

This a description of hackers I found on the internet and really describes what I think of terms applied to people.I'm sorry that it has been invented to make players who shoot lower scores appear better than high handicaps when lest they forget that they sucked at golf for a while even if they are gifted from the god's with bags of ability.

I prefer golfer just as I would call myself a footballer,snooker player,a tennis player or any other sport.
I don't see myself as a hacker,just a player of the game.I make mistakes,but in a few years time I won't be forgetting how challenging this game is for anyone.

[Pablo McGheesio]

Enough of the touchy feely BS.

What about the old guys? I played a few medals with a guy who was in his early 60s. He was a player, he played off single figuers for about 35 years. When I played with him he was off 14. But my god he was still a player, he had no distance at all, maybe 200 tops off the tee. Round the greens he was like Seve, there was nothing he could not do. He had surgeons hands, several times I was left with my mouth open watching this old guy sink puts and knock anything from 100yards dead on the flag........... He was a player, old B*****d wons £5 off me in the skins game we were having.....

[Norm3333]

What about the old guys?

Again, he WAS a player. We all can't maintain it forever. And, it's not a title like "President", that you get for lifetime.

Being a "player" is all about performance, results. Not a desire, not what you used to be. Don't devalue what a < 5 HC can do, just because we can't. If being a "player" is just about desire, IMO it denigrates what those lucky few can do. Is it fair? No. But, that's life.

[allin]

What about the old guys?

Thats the point I was trying to make earlier.

[RC]

Political correctness, as place to go to escape reasonable questions, is not a concept I personally consider a good philosophy. I think logic, truth and honesty would serve people better in the long run. At the same time, there are degrees of answers to the question of player or hacker.

I stand by my position that a player is someone who respects the game, plays by the rules, and strives to improve, and by extention, I believe this leads to lower handicaps. I also would consider a scratch golfer who violates the course or the game a hacker. Golf as a game includes traditions and responsibilities.

But, there is another answer to the question that is equally valid. Players play serious tournaments and are threats to win. Serious tournament golf is a very different game. There are men and women who find a way to score, to hit the clutch shot, to create fear or respect from their opponents. They will pull off the critical shot or sink the pressure putt. That is a real player.

For about 50 years my handicap has been mostly between 0 and 3. I've played in state championships, qualifying events, and many serious tournaments. I've played several tour guys heads up without strokes. Does that make me a player in the more intense meaning of the word? No... I am a hacker. Yes, I have won tournaments and had a trophy case, and while not really low, I've shot 66 from the pro tees on a host course for a PGA tournament and par or under on a few other tour courses. I have always been a hacker. I will not cause worry against a real player, but I might have surprised one from time to time. But day in and day out, unless you are a real threat, I don't think, in the most serious meaning of the word "player," you can decide to say you are a player. Golfers do not decide whether they are players or not, their fellow competitors do.

So, there are two answers to the question I will stand by.

[Parker0065]

Just my 2cents but two things a "Player" never asks for:
"Strokes, or Gimmes"! You play it down and you score what you score!

[Norm3333]

Political correctness, as place to go to escape reasonable questions, is not a concept I personally consider a good philosophy. I think logic, truth and honesty would serve people better in the long run. At the same time, there are degrees of answers to the question of player or hacker.

Very well said. However, I still believe that it comes down to performance. A scratch golfer is a "Player". The one you describe, is a cheat. Cheating doesn't make you a hacker.

You sound like a Player to me. I am not a Player. I practice (range/chip/putt) about 10-14 hours per week. Play as much as I can. I regularly score in the low 80s and touch the 70s once in a while. I live and breath golf. I read books, watch tourneys, and talk endlessly about golf. That doesn't make me a Player. When my proficiency in the game gets me to a point of < 5 handicap, I will, IMO, consider myself to be a Player. Until then, I consider myself to be a Golfer. With that said, I appreciate your take on the subject.

[Pablo McGheesio]

Once someone has achieved their personal potential then they are a player, even if they cannot play to that every week. They know what they can do, its personal no one can judge that by a handicap or score.

They know what is possible for themselves

And if thats is not the case....I would proudly state I hope to stay a hacker and not ever be a player.

[RC]

I don't mean to sound harsh about anything, cause I really think people who work hard and commit to the game, always trying to improve, are players. But I know where people are coming from when they talk about players from the stand point of top tier guys. When there are thousands of dollars on the line and you have a sidehill putt to win, they don't blink or feel the pressure. They may not make it, but eveyone knows they probably will. I know guys like that and they are real players.

I also know guys who make golf a big part of their life. They work hard at the game, and they can go low on occasion, they can hit good looking shots, etc., and they have my respect and I call them players as well -- but there are two (at least) definitions of players and hackers. I still think a scratch golfer who won't repair divots or ball marks, smashes ball washers, who throws fits at bad shots, and makes the game uncomfortable for others is a hacker, in the perjorative sense of the word (far more than in the skill sense) -- 'cause you don't gain the respect of your fellow golfers by being a jerk. I know the captain of an NCAA national championship team from a few years back. I think he is a hacker because of his behavior and destruction of property -- enough said... I'm out of this topic, before I get in more touble.

[Pablo McGheesio]

You are mixing up a player with a w*n**r..haha but I agree, respect the game and the course and you are doing 90% of the game correct in my opinion

[David in FL]

I agree with those that have said that players don't ask for, or accept strokes. They'd rather lose on the merit of their game, than win because of one of the few welfare systems in sport.

The only reason a player maintains a handicap is so they can provide an equitable number of strokes to non-players and/or to meet the minimum requirements for entry into certain tournaments/events.

I've never claimed to be PC either.

[DJYoshi]

i think those terms are solely dependent upon the person's view.
if someone is scratch or better, they may view someone who shoots in the 80's + a hacker.

i really only use the word hacker if someone isn't following the rules..hitting 3 balls from the fairway.. topping a majority of his/her shots.
then they shouldn't even be on the course.

then there's a golfer: someone who's understanding of the rules..respects them.. abides them... and can turn in a good score according to their current potential...even with slip ups here and there

then a player..in my opinon is all of the above..but does it on a more consistent level.

then there's pro-amateur. all of the above... and can shoot par or better on a decent to hard course

then pro....well we know who these people are..... even though tiger throws an apple core on the course every now and again...