Hitting Irons Correctly.

[Brent]

This thread will certainly show that I am a newbie at the game of golf, but this is an important question that is vital to my improvement.

I have heard conflicting theorems as to how the ball should be addressed using irons. Some people say that the ball should be scooped , which I certainly disagree with even though I am not very knowledgeable of the game. Others say that the ball should be hit at the absolute lowest point in your swing. Even yet, others say that the ball should be hit on the downswing in order to produce spin which would cause the ball to rise, obtain more spin, and stop quicker on the green.

I don't know if the way you would address the ball changes based on the shot you are playing, but I really seem to have trouble getting the ball high in the air so that it will stop when it gets near or on the green. I assume that to hit the ball higher you move it in your stance, but I am not really sure where to move it, or if this is even accurate. Any help will certainly be appreciated.

- Brent

[JetFan1983]

Who told you the ball should be scooped? That's the worst advice ever. Stop listening to a single thing that person is telling you about golf. They are completely wrong.

You hit down on your irons. Meaning right before the swing's lowest point. You hit the ball first. The divot starts in front of where the ball is- not before.

The divot should be the size of a dollar bill or so. If your divot is facing to the left of your target and you sliced the ball, that means you have an "over-the-top" swing, which is incorrect as well.

Do not scoop you irons. Worst advice ever. Go the range and try to imagine that you're trying to drive the golf ball directly into the ground. This will help you get a feel for hitting down on the ball. And trust me, you won't hit the ball into the ground (unless it's really wet). The ball will come flying off the club-face, high in the air. The reason is because the club face is compressing the ball against the ground and the face of the club, which will produce the necessary power to get the ball airborne. The loft of the club then determines how far the ball travels. If you ever hear some guy tell you "let the club do the work" this is what he means.

[MKPKR]

i don't know man, i am a pretty high handicap myself. but what i have always hear is hit down on the ball, and adjust the ball in your stance depending on the club. starting just inside your left foot for long irons and moving down to the middle of you stance for the wedges. take it with a grain of salt. sometimes i get to pose, and sometimes i'm cussing on the way to look for a lost ball. as far as divots goes, most of the time ground is so hard there is no room for a divot especially in the south during the summer.

-mike.

[Brent]

Who told you the ball should be scooped? That's the worst advice ever. Stop listening to a single thing that person is telling you about golf. They are completely wrong.

Generally when I am hitting around in my yard (primarily chip shots), I try to hit the ball on the descending stroke, but when I went golfing last Friday, something inside me said that I should be hitting the ball square, even though hitting the ball on the descending stroke seems to produce nice shots. Thank you for your help, I will certainly take your advice and I will be hitting the ball on the descending stroke, which I assume is what the pro's do to get such amazing loft out of the ball. Will hitting down on the ball cause it to check once it hits the green? - Brent

[JetFan1983]

You were correct with your chipping yes. You do want to hit the ball on the descending stroke. However, the ball will still roll out on a chip. No chip shots can really produce that one hop and stop type of landing. This is because when executing a chip shot, you don't want to be using any wrists at all. Keep your wrists quiet and imagine you are making a putting stroke. This will be more effective for you.

However with pitch shots aka using a mini-swing where you cock your wrists, making clean contact with the ball on the downswing will produce backspin. When hitting the ball first (no grass in between the ball and the clubface), on the slight downswing, you can impart backspin on the ball. The amount of backspin you produce depends on a variety of factors that include the type of ball you are using and the type of sandwedge you are using.

The balls that produce the most backspin are the expensive ones. Three-peice balls. Distance balls are cheaper, two-piece balls that are made with a different kind of cover- a cheaper material. It allows a golfer with a slow swing speed to hit the ball farther because they are easier to compress. They don't impart as much sidespin, meaning you'll hit less pronounced hooks and slices on mishits, but that also means they won't impart as much backspin, meaning it's harder to make the ball sit on approach shots. I would use these cheaper distance balls though to learn the game because you will end up losing a lot of balls in these early goings. When you start to lose balls at a very low rate, then you can start thinking about making the switch to a 3-piece high spinning ball.

If you were hitting the ball on the upswing or scooping it, assuming you don't top it which is the most likely result, you would be imparting top-spin, which means the ball would have a lot of roll on it when it lands. This is not what you want.

It sounds like those you have a natural feel for what should be happening, which is rare actually. There are so many things in golf that are counter-intuitive that it makes it difficult to learn the game.

Unfortunately, I have to go home now (still stuck at work) and I didn't edit the above post, so to anyone who spots a mistake, thank you for fixing it for me.

[Shindig]

This thread will certainly show that I am a newbie at the game of golf, but this is an important question that is vital to my improvement.

No one becomes Tiger Woods overnight. There are plenty of newbies here.

I have heard conflicting theorems as to how the ball should be addressed using irons. Some people say that the ball should be

Scooping is great if you're going for the high score. Hitting down on the ball is part metaphor for what happens, which is catching the ball, then the ground. This causes backspin, causing it to both go in the air and stop on a green.

I don't know if the way you would address the ball changes based on the shot you are playing, but I really seem to have trouble getting the ball high in the air so that it will stop when it gets near or on the green. I assume that to hit the ball higher you move it in your stance, but I am not really sure where to move it, or if this is even accurate. Any help will certainly be appreciated.

As a newbie, get a simple shot and stick with it. You don't need the super high or super low shots yet. There is plenty of time to play with ball position later.

Thank you for your help, I will certainly take your advice and I will be hitting the ball on the descending stroke, which I assume is what the pro's do to get such amazing loft out of the ball.

The pros do lots of things do get the ball to do things. The descending stroke is one of these, and it's one I believe most of us can achieve.

[Brent]

No one becomes Tiger Woods overnight. There are plenty of newbies here.

Thanks for the advice. I don't expect to become Tiger Woods over night, but I do expect to improve at a relatively quick pace, based off my extreme obsession with the game of golf.

I don't own a video camera, but I hope to get one soon so I can videotape my swings and get some good analysis to go along with my instructors advice. My instructor usually has my practice with an 8 iron, so I am quite surprised he didn't tell me that I should hit the ball on the descending stroke, because I have just been trying to hit the ball square. Putting is my favorite part of the game of golf, and I am relatively okay at it considering I am very new. I expect to improve my putting and it will probably be a good part of my game, but only time will tell. One Last Question: When playing a chip shot from a short distance, is it ever okay to flip your wrists? I seem to get a good lie out of this, but I don't know if its consistent. I assume I should still hit the ball on the descending stroke to promote backspin. - Brent

[thr33]

Flipping your wrists may result in a decent shot if your timing is good, but if you're timing is slightly off, you'll get terrible results. I used to flip my wrists a lot and I was very accurate because I practiced so much. When I got busy with school and couldn't practice, my wedge game fell apart. I'd stick with firm wrists if at all possible. I'm not a golf guru of any sort, so if i'm wrong, my bad. I'm only speaking from personal experience.

[JetFan1983]

Brent, you may have your golf terms mixed up a bit. A chip shot is a shot you use around the green in a good lie- either on the fringe, from the fairway, or sitting up nicely in the rough. You need a lot of green to work with and no major obstacles that you must carry in between the ball and your target. For these shots you can basically use any club you want. Some people are comfortable using their hybrid or 5-wood. Most use anywhere from a 5-iron to a 9-iron. I personally love to chip with my 56 degree sandwedge, which I deloft by forward pressing it so I encourage a downward blow on the ball.

A chip shot is mostly roll. Generally, this is what you'll produce with the following clubs:

8-iron: 25% airborne, 75% roll
9-iron: 30% airborne, 70% roll
Pitching Wedge: 40% airborne, 60% roll

Keep in mind that not every 8-iron, 9-iron, PW, etc. have the same loft. These are estimations on my part on how to account for how much roll you will get based on each club. That is just something you will have to find out yourself through practice.

Essentially, you want to get the ball rolling like a putt, so you read the green obviously before attempting it. You pick out a spot where you want the ball to land and then imagine it rolling to the hole. You keep your wrists completely out of it and imagine that you are putting. If you use your wrists at all in this shot you will be wildly inconsistent.

Now, when you are saying "chip" in your posts, you maybe referring to "pitch" shots, which are mini-swings from 30-60 yards out or so where you cock your wrists on the backswing. These shots are played from any lie, anywhere (excluding hazards). From a good lie, these shots are most advantageous when attacking tight pin positions or when you have very little green to work with. The combination of the descending blow and the releasing of the wrists at impact imparts backspin on the ball- assuming you've made clean contact and have the proper swing.

Going back to chipping though, which was your question: setup to it with a narrow stance. You can open your stance a bit here as well. This will make following through easier and more natural. Personally, I setup square to my target. Put the ball back in your stance to encourage a downward blow. Leave maybe 52% of your weight on your left side to further promote this downward blow. Keep your wrists very quiet like a putt and your head down. Don't pick your head up to look at your shot too early or you will either top it or make poor contact. Keep your eye on the impact zone until a second or two after the ball has gotten airborne.

Getting used to this process will make you a consistent chipper of the golf ball. Remember: A chip shot is essentially a putt. The lower body has to remain quiet as do the wrists. The head needs to be stable as well. Practice rocking your shoulders while someone holds your head still.

Anyway, I hope all this helps in some way. Your pro will know the proper technique so just ask him and he should tell you the exact same thing that I just did because I obviously didn't come up with these ideas myself.

[ks8829]

Hi Brent, welcome, I recommend watching these videos on the fundamentals of golf:

http://thesandtrap.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21680

cheers

[JetFan1983]

Wow, so in that video KS provided (thanks for that link by the way), the pro cocks his wrists when chipping. I personally try to keep my wrists as quiet as possible, but it looks as if using the wrists a bit is a legitimate option, assuming you are well practiced in doing so.

[Shindig]

My instructor usually has my practice with an 8 iron, so I am quite surprised he didn't tell me that I should hit the ball on the descending stroke, because I have just been trying to hit the ball square.

Keep in mind, there's usually a difference between what you do and what you think you do. This is true for us and also for many at the top level. So he might be getting you set up for the right motions, while telling you what you might be perceiving instead. Half the time, if you tell someone to hit down on he ball, you get all sorts of bizarre shots, including some very steep attacks on the ball.

Putting is my favorite part of the game of golf, and I am relatively okay at it considering I am very new. I expect to improve my putting and it will probably be a good part of my game, but only time will tell.

That's fantastic. Loving putting will make you a better player. I'm amazed at how many people hate putting. When else do you get to see the ball go in the cup in a regular basis?

Just remember: the only time you have to hate putting is when you're chipping or pitching. Then, you want to hate putting, so that you leave yourself, at worst, a gimme

[grantc79]

This thread will certainly show that I am a newbie at the game of golf, but this is an important question that is vital to my improvement.

A properly hit ball would have a divot starting just in front of where the ball was sitting.

In short, hit down on the ball and almost feel like you are pinching it into the ground.

[dynot]

In short, hit down on the ball and almost feel like you are pinching it into the ground.

The only problem I have with my game is the irons, so I was eager to read the replies to this post (always hitting them very low and pulling them). No matter what I do I can't seem to get any height.

I already knew about striking down on the ball but no one has mentioned at what angle? Should it be more steep or more shallow?

[shortstop20]

Irons should be swung at a steeper angle because you stand closer to the ball with irons than woods(because irons are shorter). The steeper angle will encourage a downward strike. With the proper setup if you return the club to the same angle as you had at address you will have the correct angle for a good downward strike.

[pjsnyc]

The only problem I have with my game is the irons, so I was eager to read the replies to this post (always hitting them very low and pulling them). No matter what I do I can't seem to get any height.

Leaving different shot types out of the equation, steep or shallow is determined by the club you're hitting (woods + long irons = shallow, short irons + wedges = steep).

[grantc79]

The only problem I have with my game is the irons, so I was eager to read the replies to this post (always hitting them very low and pulling them). No matter what I do I can't seem to get any height.

In short it depends on the iron and it depends on the shot you are trying to hit.

If you are hitting them low and pulling them then two things are happening: 1: You aren't compressing the ball which means you aren't hitting down on the ball with lag and a flat left wrist. 2a: Your plane line is over the top or 2b: You are hooding the face left at impact/address To put it as simply as I possibly could. The club goes first up and then in during your take away. The club in your downswing should go out and DOWN during your down swing. A great many people try to swing the club at the target that they are trying to hit when realistically what you are trying to hit is the ball and it is DOWN below your feet. Be conscious of where you are directing your energy. If you are directing it anywhere OTHER THAN the ball then you are doing it wrong. The club face opens as you pull it up and in during your take away. During your down swing you should swing out and down and allow the club face to SQUARE to the target at impact. Not hood, return to square.

[dynot]

You guys are great! Thanks for the tips.

grantc79, I presume your tips are for a righty. So this means I should have a flat right wrist and I must be hooding the face right at impact, correct?

I like the way you explain that the focus of my energy should be towards the ball and not the target. Often however my club impacts too far behind the ball or I top or I skull it.

Thanks to all again...