Reverse C: Good, Bad, or Indifferent?

[svchiefs19]

i filmed my swing today and realized that i have a major reverse c finsh going for me. that actually makes sense becuase ive been having some lower back pain this year. i know that the reverse c was very popular on the PGA Tour in years past, but has all but disappeared from todays game.

so, i have a few questions:
1) What causes the reverse c?
2) Is the reverse c hurting my game? (i.e., could i hit the ball better, farther, straigher if i get rid of this reverse c?
3) If need be, what do i need to do to get rid of the reverse c?

i know im asking for a lot here, but your help is greatly appreciated!

thanks in advance!

[Zeph]

A simple Google search, but better than nothing: http://www.sirshanksalot.com/index.p...=169&Itemid;=44
http://www.swingingagolfclub.com/gol...er-golf-swing/

Weight transfer is very important, weight shift drills would what you want to work on.

[KwSipp]

Its funny how this guy above me always comments on other peoples knowledge with some form of contradictory.... But he doesnt even know how a reverse C is formed. To the op sliding your hips towards the target is what causes it and its something that was used in the earlier years of golf, an "old age swing" if you will. Geoff Oglivy has this very badly in his swing and he uses it well but as far as your back goes IT WILL BE TOAST if you keep it up.

[Power_fade]

The only good thing about a reverse C is it will give you a much higher trajectory off the tee. If you'll notice Geoff's stance with his driver, he uses a short tee and tees it up 3-4" off his left foot to flatten his launch angle. It can be a power move, much like the old stack and tilt, but the guy above is right. It will destroy your back.

[iacas]

Its funny how this guy above me always comments on other peoples knowledge with some form of contradictory.... But he doesnt even know how a reverse C is formed. To the op sliding your hips towards the target is what causes it and its something that was used in the earlier years of golf, an "old age swing" if you will. Geoff Oglivy has this very badly in his swing and he uses it well but as far as your back goes IT WILL BE TOAST if you keep it up.

Not much of a reverse C going on here:

http://iacas.org/asm/fimgs/tiger_geoff_posted.jpg You do push your hips forward throughout the downswing, right up until (and slightly after) impact. Even Hogan talked about it, and his hips slid forward a ton.

[svchiefs19]

so is it caused by lateral movement of the hips then? if your hips go toward the target, and the upper body doesnt, then i see how the reverse c is formed. does that mean that i just have to work on rotating/turning my hips as opposed to sliding them forward?

[KwSipp]

Not much of a reverse C going on here:

If your referring to staying on your back foot then NO but with all due respect king iacas I see alot of forward lateral movement in geoff compared to tiger. So what are YOU saying, that only one type of reverse c is ever recognized...... Because from what I know is to much lateral movement of the hips can be called a reverse c as well as staying on your back foot. Please entertain us!!

[iacas]

If your referring to staying on your back foot then NO but with all due respect king iacas I see alot of forward lateral movement in geoff compared to tiger. So what are YOU saying, that only one type of reverse c is ever recognized...... Because from what I know is to much lateral movement of the hips can be called a reverse c as well as staying on your back foot. Please entertain us!!

Huh?

Geoff and Tiger move forward about the same amount. Tiger masks his forward hip movement with his squat and his turn, but the left hip moves forward from the top of the backswing (or just before it) right on through to and perhaps just past impact. Both players finish in great "posted up" positions on their left sides. Neither player has what we'd call a "reverse C" finish position. No good player ever finished with much weight on their right (back) foot. In this photo you'll see there's more weight on the back foot, but it's not all there nor is the majority there. Same with Tiger and Geoff - very little weight is on their back foot. They wouldn't be on their tip-toe (of their back foot) if they had weight back there. The hips push forward (towards the target, not towards the ball) throughout the downswing. If I haven't answered whatever you were saying or asking, sorry, but I don't really understand what you're saying or asking. Two final things: "to much lateral movement of the hips can be called a reverse c" - no. Also, "as well as staying on your back foot" - no, that's more likely a reverse pivot, not a "reverse C."

[KwSipp]

Three things
1. You are correct about the reverse pivot, my apologies
2. Tiger woods doesnt mask excessive lateral hip movement with anything, if so then the same would go with more tour pros then we could count 1 being Rory Mcllroy, to this day he has more hip "rotation" than just about anyone Ive seen.
3. One charateristic of a reverse C finish is throwing your hands over your left shoulder, geoff O might not be a Tom lehman, but he does have a mild reverse c posi at the finish. If Im not mistaken even he has stated this fact.

[iacas]

2. Tiger woods doesnt mask excessive lateral hip movement with anything, if so then the same would go with more tour pros then we could count 1 being Rory Mcllroy, to this day he has more hip "rotation" than just about anyone Ive seen.

Tiger's hip moves - a lot - from the top of his backswing through impact. It moves towards the target.

P.S. You're the only one who's used the word "excessive."

[Williamevanl]

This is one of those golf axioms that threw me off while learning how to play. Along with keep you head down it is said that you want to make sure that you don't have lateral movement or 'sway'. This sort of thing makes people think they are supposed to stay in one spot when in reality you do sway forward quite a bit during the swing.

The idea I suppose is that you want to coil for power and not move back and forward but I definitely think you coil and then sway forward, only its a natural movement resulting in a backward C looking position.

[mm6840]

Hi,

Reverse C finish is "prescribed" with a classic 2 plane swing! If you're steep in backswing (2 plane) you should somehowe shallow your approach to the ball. First lateral move (in all type of swing) to the left and then thru the ball .. But with arms high you'll hit the ground if you'r not to shallowing with action which leads to the reverse C position. I hope you have a picture and i hope my english is not thattt baddd
Ogilvy, tiger,... they have more or less hybrid type of swing (arms are not so high) and came to the ball more shallow from different backswing position/angle.
Reverse C is not by "itself" something bad&co; .. but in many wild swings you can "injure" yourself more likely. If you're relaxed and body is warm .. is not such a big problem.
if you're wanna change it ... you should change your swing (more flat/rotary)... You should know changing swing type/style is time consuming action

Regards,
M

[Brakkus]

Iacas is convinced of a lateral slide,I prefer the term rotational,in the past the word was a hip bump.As an advocate of a one plane style and I have adopted Hardy's ideas he says to rotate and not slide,but you have to finish on that left foot.

Some one plane notes I read say simply stand your weight on the left foot at the start of your transition,and this will lead to the hip moving across.I conciously don't slide forward but I know that there is some.

On occasions when I have simply tried to rotate I catch it behind the ball even if I have stayed centred in the backswing.

Iacas says to slide forward with your hips in the golf swing and he's a 2 handicap so no argument it's worked for him.

We have to find our own swing and you won't find absolute truth on the golf swing.

[mm6840]

Iacas is convinced of a lateral slide,I prefer the term rotational,in the past the word was a hip bump.As an advocate of a one plane style and I have adopted Hardy's ideas he says to rotate and not slide,but you have to finish on that left foot.

Hi,

Hardy teaches step1 = backswing, step 2=onto left leg= hips shift (a smaller one), step 3= downswing. So in every swing (S&T; included) is a weight shift. More centered/rotational is swing type less pronounced/visible is shift ! but it's there Cheers, M

[Brakkus]

Hi,

Not wanting to split hairs here but Hardy says to start the downswing hip movement by initiating a turn to the left.He doesn't advocate it in the one plane swing but does when he talks of the two plane. He does however advocate shifting your now centered weight over to the left foot about 60% of it,so of course it looks as though the hips have shifted,but in reality the whole centre of the body has just moved,but the hips turn and don't slide. Cheers

[svchiefs19]

Wow, you guys are having a heck of time with this little debate here. I dont mean to interupt, but.......

I did a little research and looked at my swing some more and i came to this conclusion: the the reverse c is most commonly caused by a lack of weight shift from the back leg to the front leg during the downswing. After looking at my swing, i can see that i definetly do clear my hips and shift my weight from my right leg to left. In order for that weight shift to happen, there has to be at least A LITTLE BIT of lateral movement with the hips. So my hips are moving slightly towards the target, but my upper body is not moving towards the target. Therefore, after the followthrough, my hips are in front of my upperbody and head, causing the recerse c finish. Im thinking i just need to work on moving my upper body and lower body together so my head will stay on top of my shoulders on top of my hips.

Does what i just said have any truth to it or am i just making it up as i go? At least it sounds good to me....

[mm6840]

Not wanting to split hairs here but Hardy says to start the downswing hip movement by initiating a turn to the left.He doesn't advocate it in the one plane swing but does when he talks of the two plane.

Me neither (spliting hairs

) but .. in The Plane truth For golfer page 56 JH "I would like to insert what I call your two move.. This two move is simply a small bumping move with your left side , which moves a bit more weight onto your left foot". And when you do that ... lateral slide occurs And b/w nobody does that better than Tiger Woods Cheers M p.s.

[mm6840]

Wow, you guys are having a heck of time with this little debate here. I dont mean to interupt, but.......

Sorry but "..So my hips are moving slightly towards the target, but my upper body is not moving towards the target. Therefore, after the followthrough, my hips are in front of my upperbody and head,.." SHOULD BE in your(any) good swing !

Watch Hogan ... he has that and not finishing in reverse C !!! But his 1 Plane swinger ! I'm also 1 planer .. so I can't tell how to perform 2 plane without reverse C. Cheers, M