Laser Rangefinder Expectations

[golfnz34me]

I spent 3 years designing a GPS guided steering system for tractors, so I have a lot of experience with GPS precision.

Consumer grade devices will max out at about 10 feet (3 yards or so) accuracy when they have the maximum number of satellites in view. The more satellites the better, but the best you'll ever get is about 3 yards.

You can get better than centimeter accuracy, but it requires a nearby reference station to provide the corrections to your GPS receiver. Those corrections cost money (usually a subscription fee) and require a specially designed receiver to incorporate them.

Cell-phone based GPS systems can use the cell towers as reference stations, so they can do better then your average Garmin/Skycaddie. The term for this is assisted GPS, or AGPS. Believe it or not, Freecaddie, which is totally free and runs on your cell phone, has the potential to be more accurate and reliable than the expensive Skycaddie systems.

Additionally, since the exact current pin placement is not incoprorated into the GPS systems, you are really guessing at the yardage to the actual pin. You can figure at LEAST 3 more yards potential error just from not knowing the exact pin placement on the green.

So that means in a best case scenario the GPS units will be around +/- 6 yards of accuracy to the pin.

It's up to the individual to decide if that is sufficient accuracy for them.

For me, that's not accurate enough, especially on wedge shots.

[tricky]

I spent 3 years designing a GPS guided steering system for tractors, so I have a lot of experience with GPS precision.

That's interesting, thanks. I actually have FreeCaddie with AGPS on my phone, and that matches the experience I have with accuracy. I can give a number certainly within about three yards when compared to a laser (our pro lent us one, and we took it out)....by knowing where the greens and hazards were mapped, and looking at pin positions with a little local knowledge.

In my experience it is accurate enough, and it's seemless....so I can concentrate on my setup and shot visualisation without getting something out of my bag and pressing buttons and stuff. It's personal I've no doubt. I find the distances alone most useful for long distance and a combination of distance, visualisation, and feel most useful for short distances. So in that regard the gps system I have works well with my perceived needs.

[denver_nuggs_15]

You need the flagsticks or the little prisms for that system to work though, right?

Not for the LaserLink Gold. They can hit anything, but hit the prisms up to like 500 yards. The original LaserLink (Silver) only hits the prisms. No magnification like Bushnell's and Leupold's though.

Would those of you who use a range finder recommend them to a beginner who is starting to get consistent shot length?

It depends how you like getting yardages. I like getting yardages by walking it off. It makes me feel more comfortable. The course where I primarily play has front, back, and center markings, so I just go by those numbers. Some people like using lasers or GPS's because they like it better. If you are comfortable walking off yardages, then I don't really see a need for it. It's like a "Should I play hybrids, woods, or irons" kind of question. The answer is different for everybody and only you can answer it.

[patriot07]

Costs between lasers and GPS devices are getting more comparable as many of these GPSs can be had without any annual fee. The new Garmin Approach G5 has no annual fee. I believe the Sonocaddie V300 has a one time fee of $30 or $50 depending on if you want courses just for the US or the world. uPro only has per course fees if you want their "pro mode" courses. Golf Guru has no annual fees but they have just introduced a new unit that is touch screen and has graphical depictions of the hole. Those courses also have a per course fee but the basic courses and information is more than adequate and still free.

Skycaddie is certainly one of the few, but they're, at first glance, one of the few companies with a GPS unit that's appreciably cheaper than a laser rangefinder. The vast majority of the sub-$300 GPS units only give you front, center and back, but you can have a skycaddie SG3 that will give you all other targets for $150 right now at Golfsmith. Of course, like someone else said, the SG3 and SG4 are pieces of junk, in my opinion. That being said, the best value in the GPS market is the uPro at $300 right now with the rebate. There's no annual fee, all you have to pay for is the flyover views of the course. Of course, they're $10 apiece, but you don't have to buy them if you don't want.

I used the Leupold again today. I think I'm going to return it. Sometimes I just can't get good distances. I didn't pay $300 so I could get 5 distances and try to figure out which one is right. A couple times today, I never could get a good yardage, even though I sat there for about 20-30 seconds holding the button down. I'm just not sure if I want to try another Leupold, assuming this one is defective, or go with the Bushnell. Sometimes it gave me good yardages on the first scan, but that was rare. Usually I got 3-5 yardages while I scanned, and I had to pick the right one. Maybe that's normal for these things, since more than one person has suggested the scan, which you automatically know you're going to be getting multiple yardages. But that's unacceptable for a $300 laser, in my opinion.

[ScottRempel]

A little late to the show, but I just wanted to comment as I recently purchased a used Bushnell Pinseeker 1500 and have been using it for the last week or so.
Damn that thing is awesome. The first day I had it out it was quite windy...probably gusting to 50km/h. I figured it would be one hell of a test as not only were the flagsticks blowing all over the place, but I was as well. Well, it seems like with the pinseeker mode I just point that thing in the general direction of the flagstick and it grabs the right yardage. I was extremely impressed at how well it works. On one of the par 4s, I easily grabbed the yardage to the green by "shooting" the guy in the group ahead of us that was taking the pin out...it was a 406 yard shot (now if I could only hit that far :p).
It has already probably saved me several strokes by being able to put my irons shots closer by knowing the actual yardage to the flag. I've been on a hole where I'm about 155 yards away from the green, according to the 150 yard marker, but my distance to the pin was 169 yards (back pin on a deep-ish green). Knowing I had that much more to go past the centre of the green gave me the confidence to club up and hit a shot that got all the way back to the pin.

[patriot07]

Finally came to a decision. I bought a skycaddie SG3, Leupold GX-I, and used a callaway uPro before I finally picked up a used skycaddie sg2 on craigslist for $50. It's much easier to use than the rangefinder, and is just as functional as the uPro or the SG3. For those who are still undecided, try to find a used SG2 cheap. I've had the SG2 for about a month now, and it's way better than the rangefinder, and way cheaper than the uPro. You won't be disappointed, for the money. If you have $350 to burn, grab the uPro. If you want to save $250-$300, pick up a used SG2 and have fun.

[winders]

Several years ago, I had a Bushnell, maybe it was model 400? Worked great. Sold it when I quit golf. Back golfing again. Just bought Bushnell 1500 with slope and pinseeker. Works great.

I hope you aren't using it in rounds used to establish your handicap......

S-

[winders]

I used to be a strong proponent of laser rangefinders over GPS units. I still think they are great devices. I even plan on keeping my Bushnell Pinseeker 1500TE in the bag for a while. Once I become comfortable using the SkyCaddie SG5, I will probably sell my 1500TE. Then again, maybe I will keep both so I will know the exact distance to the flag when I feel I can go pin hunting.

As I have become a better golfer...make that a more intelligent golfer, I find that I am not just whacking the ball as far down the fairway as I can. I score better having full shots into the green and plan for them now. I am hitting irons off of some tees that I used to use driver or 3 wood. Often I am using mid irons where I used to use long irons. Layup information has become critical. On par 5's, I used to always try to reach in two or hit as far as I could. I'd end up in some pretty bad spots more often than not. That does not happen nearly as often now that I am laying up with a plan. A plan that the SkyCaddie makes possible.

Also, I no longer aim at the flag on every shot to the green. Knowing the distance to the front, middle, and back of the green on my target line is critical as well. The IntelliGreen feature is incredible. It makes it easy to plan the best shot into the green. If I have left myself a full shot into the green, it can make it easier to safely pin hunt. Especially with a 9 iron or less.

I am scoring better than ever. Part of that is improvement in my ball striking. But most of it is because of better course management. Course management that really isn't possible with a laser rangefinder.

S-

[DarkPrince]

As a random question from a late arrival, can range finders just give you a distance to whatever is being aimed at, or does it actually require some kind of target that stands out? I'm looking at buying a Leupold GX-1 through work (unfortunately they report they are backordered through april >.<) and I'm sure its a stupid question, but nonetheless I ask. It just occurred to me because on some holes at my home course, there are times where its a dogleg and I can't see around it, but I would like to see the yardage to say the top of the hill before it doglegs right on the Middle Par 5 5th. There aren't any real landmarks near it other than maybe some trees on the right hand side, so is it possible just to aim it at the middle of the fairway and pop a distance? I wonder because I remember someone mentioning finding their driving distance by picking out an object by the tee-box, walking to the ball, and lasing the object to find a distance, which makes me think you can't just aim at where your ball came to rest from the tee box? Either way I'm a noob on the subject haha.

[iacas]

DP, you can use the GX-I to aim at anything you can see, yes. A hill, a tree that's even with the top of the hill on the side, the lip of a bunker, a flag, the group in front of you, the house across the street from your front door, etc.

[socalsharky]

so is it possible just to aim it at the middle of the fairway and pop a distance? I wonder because I remember someone mentioning finding their driving distance by picking out an object by the tee-box, walking to the ball, and lasing the object to find a distance, which makes me think you can't just aim at where your ball came to rest from the tee box? Either way I'm a noob on the subject haha.

The laser rangefinders can definitely pick up any object you can see. Just remember that the accuracy depends on the steadiness of your hands, and perhaps more importantly how discrete the point you are shooting at. Trying to stand at the tee and shoot to a point on a flat fairway where your ball came to rest will not be accurate. There is nothing definite for the rangefinder to pick up, and if your aim is off by even 1 degree, your distance reading could be way off. That's the reason people shoot back to the tee box; that way you are shooting from your ball to a "hard" object like a sign, bench, ball washer, etc. Rangefinders are good at picking up objects like that, while ignoring the background distances. When the whole target area looks the same to the rangefinder (like a big open fairway), they're not so good. As mentioned before, hill tops, bunkers, etc., work well.

[patriot07]

socalsharky is right, you really need a distinct object to aim at. It'd be very tough to get a flat spot on the fairway, while a tree, ball-washer, or flag is much easier.

For what it's worth, I ended up getting a good offer for my SG2 and I sold it and bought a Bushnell Medalist. I tried it side-by-side with a Leupold GX-I, and I like it much better. The pin-seeker functionality is much better on the Bushnell than on the Leupold, in my experience. I couldn't be happier with the Medalist after paying $225 shipped to my door on amazon.com and getting the $30 rebate. I still think the uPro is a great option if you're going to spend $300-$350 and then buy courses, but the laser works great for my game right now for $190 total with nothing more to buy but an occasional battery.

[LBlack14]

Anybody use/try 1 of these?

http://www.nightvisionplanet.com/nik...nder-7426.html

[Fourputt]

Anybody use/try 1 of these?

I see no indication that it even offers a scan feature, much less anything resembling Pinseeker on the Bushnell. I have a Nikon 440 that I bought before I realized what was actually needed. It at least does scan, but with no Pinseeker logic, it was very difficult to know haw good the reading was. My Bushnell Tour V2 is worth 3 times what the Nkon was, but only cost about $100 more.

[JGus]

I received my GX-I yesterday, can't wait until Saturday to put it to the test on the course. And now I know how far every tree and light pole is from my patio, practice practice.

[boogielicious]

My wife got me the GX-II for my 50th birthday. It seems to be very straightforward. I took it on a walk and was easily able to get distances quickly. Took it to the range yesterday and I could get the flags in a second or two using the scan mode. I just rest both arms against my ribs and hold the button down. Easy. I scan the ground below the flag, then the post, then the flag.

I'm sure the other rangefinders are nice too, as are GPS. I really wanted something waterproof and small, so the Leupold seemed the best fit for me.

Can't wait to use it on the course, especially on tees for par 3s where only God knows if the scorecard is accurate.

[Fourputt]

My wife got me the GX-II for my 50th birthday. It seems to be very straightforward. I took it on a walk and was easily able to get distances quickly. Took it to the range yesterday and I could get the flags in a second or two using the scan mode. I just rest both arms against my ribs and hold the button down. Easy. I scan the ground below the flag, then the post, then the flag.

I hope you don't plan to use it for any competitions. The GX-II is not legal for golf, not for handicap nor for competition.

[DarkPrince]

It seems the new GX-4 has the aforementioned illegal technology, but that you have to have some form of bright yellow "smart key" that is easily visible on it for the functions to be available. Does this theoretically release it from being illegal since yes the technology is in it, but has to be unlocked otherwise it only functions as a basic rangefinder? Also I found it funny that the first quote I see when I go to Leupold's website is Iacas haha :P