Can shaft flex cause a pull??

[Esox]

On 5/8/2021 at 5:59 PM, colin007 said:

Over the top with a closed face?

Definitely. Not closed in relation to the swing path, only closed in relation to the target line. A common fault in the "getting near bogey golf range".

On 5/8/2021 at 7:01 PM, measureoffsetinnm said:

I think people assume path in at impact has to be OTT?

Either that or playing the ball much too far forward.

[measureoffsetinnm]

1 hour ago, Esox said:

 

Either that or playing the ball much too far forward.

Why not both!

[onthehunt526]

On 5/8/2021 at 7:01 PM, measureoffsetinnm said:

I think people assume path in at impact has to be OTT?

It doesn’t, your path doesn’t even have to be going inside. You can have an in-to-out path and if the face is closed to your path you’ll hit a pull hook. 
 

Most pulls come from out-to-in with a square to path clubface. If you wanna hit a fade you want the face a little bit open.

Shaft flex can be an ingredient in pulls and pushes, however, one company’s “regular” can be another company’s “stiff” or “senior”, shaft flex doesn’t have an industry standard.

I’ll explain what I mean even though this is dated. Rifle had an iron shaft in the late 90s-early 2000s called the Royal Precision Rifle FCM. That shaft had flexes between ~4.0-7.5. They also have the Project X which is in .5 increments from 5.0-7.0. The Project X is a full .5 points stiffer than the stated number flex. The FCM is dead on. It’s what the FCM chart is based on. So a Project X (non-flighted) 5.5 is actually a 6.0 on the chart. For the record KBS C-Taper S is 6.2. Dynamic Gold S300 is 5.8. See all stiff flex shafts are not created equal. (R300 is 4.8 and X100 6.8 True Temper is actually quite consistent with their differences in flex, as is Project X.)

[measureoffsetinnm]

3 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

It doesn’t, your path doesn’t even have to be going inside. You can have an in-to-out path and if the face is closed to your path you’ll hit a pull hook. 

If the path is actually going in at impact rather than simulating it by overclosing the clubface I mean. OTT is the most common cause of out to in swing as I understood it?

 

3 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

Most pulls come from out-to-in with a square to path clubface. If you wanna hit a fade you want the face a little bit open.

This makes sense. The classic duckhook-pull-slice trifecta.

 

3 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

Shaft flex can be an ingredient in pulls and pushes, however, one company’s “regular” can be another company’s “stiff” or “senior”, shaft flex doesn’t have an industry standard.

I’ll explain what I mean even though this is dated. Rifle had an iron shaft in the late 90s-early 2000s called the Royal Precision Rifle FCM. That shaft had flexes between ~4.0-7.5. They also have the Project X which is in .5 increments from 5.0-7.0. The Project X is a full .5 points stiffer than the stated number flex. The FCM is dead on. It’s what the FCM chart is based on. So a Project X (non-flighted) 5.5 is actually a 6.0 on the chart. For the record KBS C-Taper S is 6.2. Dynamic Gold S300 is 5.8. See all stiff flex shafts are not created equal. (R300 is 4.8 and X100 6.8 True Temper is actually quite consistent with their differences in flex, as is Project X.)

Considering getting my set of irons reshafted so this is very useful info thanks.

[boogielicious]

8 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

On 5/8/2021 at 7:01 PM, measureoffsetinnm said:

 

It doesn’t, your path doesn’t even have to be going inside. You can have an in-to-out path and if the face is closed to your path you’ll hit a pull hook

This is very true. My path is in to out and if I close the face too much I get a high pull or even a hook. I get too inside when I early extend, which is what I’m working on with my Evolvr instructor.

[Esox]

57 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

This is very true. My path is in to out and if I close the face too much I get a high pull or even a hook. I get too inside when I early extend, which is what I’m working on with my Evolvr instructor.

 If your path is in to out, wouldn't the ball always start out to the right or straight down the target line (assuming right handed swing) and either draw or hook to the left, which isn't a "pull"  that starts going left at impact?? "Pull" implies that the club head is headed towards the golfer as in out to in, push means in to out.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Esox

[boogielicious]

1 minute ago, Esox said:

 If your path is in to out, wouldn't the ball always start out to the right or straight down the target line (assuming right handed swing) and either draw of hook to the left, which isn't a "pull"  that starts going left at impact??

Correct. I was just commenting that you don’t necessarily need and out to in swing to cause a hook or even pull hook. If my face is point at target during impact, and my path is in to out, it can curve hard left.

[onthehunt526]

8 minutes ago, Esox said:

 If your path is in to out, wouldn't the ball always start out to the right or straight down the target line (assuming right handed swing) and either draw of hook to the left, which isn't a "pull"  that starts going left at impact??

The “pull” has more to do with where the clubface is in relation to the path (closed). You can have your clubface square to your target line, but if it’s closed to your path the ball will go left (for the right-handed golfer). 
 

Like I stated before shaft flex is an ingredient into a pull. You’re grips can be too small, you can be over-rotate your wrists and shut the face. But a too flexible shaft... not sure I exactly buy it. I believe it’s how you load the club.

[Esox]

I can attest that the longest shot I can make with any iron is a pull-draw.  Usually seen when there is severe trouble on the back left of the green, the old "double cross" crops up when attempting a fade with big stakes on the line.............

8 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

The “pull” has more to do with where the clubface is in relation to the path (closed). You can have your clubface square to your target line, but if it’s closed to your path the ball will go left (for the right-handed golfer). 
 

Like I stated before shaft flex is an ingredient into a pull. You’re grips can be too small, you can be over-rotate your wrists and shut the face. But a too flexible shaft... not sure I exactly buy it. I believe it’s how you load the club.

If the path is in to out it's a push, draw or hook, path out to in out to in it's a pull, fade or slice. Unless one is a unicorn that can hit a pull-hook or push-fade. Not common, but feasible.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Esox

[iacas]

46 minutes ago, Esox said:

If the path is in to out it's a push, draw or hook, path out to in out to in it's a pull, fade or slice. Unless one is a unicorn that can hit a pull-hook or push-fade. Not common, but feasible.

I'm not sure what you're going on about, but you can hit a pull-hook and a push-fade. Happens all the time.

The path can be in to out and the ball can start LEFT of the target line. The path can be out to in and the ball can start RIGHT of the target line. And I'm not playing tricks here with righties or lefties - I'm using righty terms.

Your posts seem to indicate an "old ball flight laws" sort of thinking that I had thought was eradicated.

The clubface primarily determines the initial starting direction of the ball, not the path.

https://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws