Say NO! to gps/yardage computers

[raycharles]

I think that GPS/yardage computers take away from the tradition of the game. So do lines on golf balls. They are a putting aid.

[Hyper X Crusher]

A good drill to improve your yardage estimating that I use is to take a educated guess at the distance to the pin, then verify it with my rangefinder. It only takes about 5 seconds and will help you improve your accuracy on range estimating.

Just my .02

[iacas]

You guys have it wrong. When I'm refering to new tech I'm not talking about clubs and balls, I'm talking about high tech yardage i phones, gps, etc.

We know that.

The point everyone's trying to make is that you've chosen to draw the line in a certain place: after "every piece of ball and club technology available to me, but right before giving me an accurate yardage." Other people are saying that not only do they list "accurate yardages" well before current club and ball technology on this particular scale, but that they've not drawn the line in the same place at all. Jack Nicklaus had accurate yardages in the 70s. He invented the modern yardage book and had his caddies pace off the course. You said "Enjoy the game like the founders." Everyone pointing out the hypocrisy of the contents of your golf bag is dead on point in refuting that bit of silliness.

Also from experience golfers with computer yardage gps spend TOO much time checking yardage and it actually slows down the pace of play. Why should the human eye be replaced by a machine!!

That's not been my experience at all. It takes me 10 seconds to get a yardage with my laser. It would take me quite a bit more if I had to pace off a yardage or even walk five yards over to a sprinkler head. And they don't do anything to tell me where the flag is on the green, so I'd have to estimate that, too.

The regrettable part for me, and presumably for the OP, is that an essential human element of the game, estimating the distance and judging the right swing, is being taken out of the equation with GPS and rangefinders.

It's been gone in the pro and elite amateur ranks for decades, and it's been nowhere near 100% there since courses started putting in yardage markers to begin with.

I enjoy hitting good golf shots - I don't enjoy playing a guessing game and seeing if I was right. That's immaterial to golf (for me).

As opposed to other technological improvements in equipment, the devices actually perform the task of the human eye, in a way that exceeds it's natural ability.

So you'd ban 150-yard stakes and sprinkler heads with yardages listed on them, too, since they, too, provide the information that the human eye cannot natively determine?

Look, the Rules of Golf consider yardage to be one of the pieces of information that's common knowledge. It's not "advice" and golf isn't meant to be a game of "who can eye up the yardages better."

How is essentially robotic eyesight that far away from a robotic aiming device or alignment aid?

It's not robotic eyesight. Eyesight's a bit more involved than "how far from here to there?" A range finder's not going to help you read the break on a green. It won't help you feel the wind. It won't help you set up to the ball or make a swing with your super-tech driver.

I certainly wouldn't want a robot to swing for me, why would I want it to perform the other essential tasks of the game?

Guessing the yardage isn't an "essential task" of the game.

But I've always thought of the inherent error involved in human judgement as an essential element in making any game fun.

Uh, the golf swing itself leaves plenty of room for human error. As does the mental side of the game.

Yardage isn't an "essential element" of the game of golf. I take the Rules of Golf as stating as much. Being able to judge how much the wind or elevation will affect your shot - yes. The yardage to the target? No. They give sharp shooters in the Olympics the yardages to their targets. That's an even simpler sport than golf (physically) and yet they don't even rely on people's eyesight there - they give 'em the distances.

A good drill to improve your yardage estimating that I use is to take a educated guess at the distance to the pin, then verify it with my rangefinder. It only takes about 5 seconds and will help you improve your accuracy on range estimating.

I do that all the time. Sometimes a friend will say "137" and I'll say "139" as I'm pulling up to the ball. I shoot it and say "we were both close: 138."

[Cussin hacker]

Touring pro's have their caddies check yardages for them. Down to less than a foot in many cases. So I can't see the problem with equipment that helps you determan yardage. I don't have a GPS, but will when prices fall some more. I'd be screwed if it weren't for yardage markers on the fairways. My depth perseption is just not what it used to be. Should I and others be penalized for this? NO Way!!

[goblue107501]

Damn! Iacas said pretty much everything I was going to say. I had the multi quote ready and everything. I guess I should have crawled out of bed a few minutes earlier.

My main retort is this. I can get an accurate yardage using sprinkler heads, a yardage book, and pinsheet, but until courses provide these items, I will stick with my rangefinder. If we don't have to guess at yardages, why should we? Because unless you have all the things I listed, that is all it is. Sometimes you guess right, and sometimes wrong. I am right 100% of the time. And I can do it faster than you can step off yardages and guess.

[Big_M]

Most people play the same courses over and over and therefore know the yardages on those courses anyway.

I have played about 40 different courses the past year or so... and while I do have a few "home courses" I still play enough "other" courses that GPS is extremely helpful... plus, just because it's my home course doesn't mean I know that X location is precisely 142 from the front and 172 to the back. The same course argument seems a litle stupid to me.

IMO, they should never have been allowed but there you go.

right... because only pros should have nice precise yardage while playing... how dumb to allow such a thing.

One point is they're just another technological aid for people who appear to think they can buy a good round. Latest driver, new putter, new ball, GPS etc. I'm aware I'm tarring everyone with the same brush here!

In one breath you say we are wrong for pointing out the OP's tech clubs, whilst in the the next breath you attach the rest for the same thing. For the record, I have nice new clubs, but my game came through lots of hard work... and GPS helps my game perform to it's fullest by knowing that the creek off the tee is 265 to reach, so hit a 3-wood.

One reason I think they're a backward step (apart from slowing everything down - in my experience of playing with people using them), is a lot of courses use various design tricks and always have done to make golfers THINK; GPS removes the requirement to do this in the same way.

As others have pointed out, used properly they speed up play. Also, thinking is still required, I simply have the CORRECT and NECESSARY information to make good on course decisions.

Finally, they're a waste of time in the main because most people have maybe 5% chance of hitting the ball well enough for the exact yardage to make any difference what-so-ever.

I think my chances of using the information on my GPS and executing a shot is MUCH higher than 5%... even on a mishit, the information helped.

On a different note, conflating the OP's bag with the theme of his post and using that to rubbish his point is pretty sad.

No, actually this was right on point.

THE ONLY THING A GPS UNIT IS CAPABLE OF DOING IS GIVING CORRECT YARDAGE. All the arguments that you have to "think" less on the course or that it takes longer to play a round of golf with them are ridiculous. The

precisely!

I am sorry, but the people arguing against GPS or rangefinders seem to be completely missing the point. Golf is so much more fun when you KNOW what shot to play... I can't stand going to a new course and hitting through a dogleg on a perfect drive simply because I didn't have the yardage. I love not pacing around looking for yardages. I love knowing that the proper layup on this par 5 to avoid the bunker in the center of the fairway is 120 out, because 100 out puts me right in it... I guess the guys who HATE GPS also hate seeing people make informed decisions.

[Fourputt]

Let me guess. most of you guys are under 30. You younger guys think tech can help with eveything,. Try to enjoy an old game as it was ment to be played. the computers are B***T

Wrong ding-dong. I'm 62, and I'll take what help I can to take unnecessary pressure off my swing. Who are you to dictate how the game "was meant to be played". Taking that all the way back, it was meant to be played by shepherd hitting stones with their crooks. Is that what you mean?????

Yawn. I feel stupid for posting in this thread earlier.

I feel stupid for continuing to post in it...

Most people play the same courses over and over and therefore know the yardages on those courses anyway. I can't for the life of me see the need for GPS except on a new(ish) course. Each to their own though and for better or worse, they're here to stay. IMO, they should never have been allowed but there you go.

Apparently you don't roam the course as far afield as many of us do. I Hit the ball in places where there are no indicators.... sometimes I can't even see the green, yet I have an open shot and and open swing. Why should I be denied the ability to still get a good distance without having to waste 5 minutes trying to find a sprinkler, guesstimate from that, then still be uncertain. Meanwhile you're out there standing in the fairway getting pissed at me for screwing around for so long.

And it's right to point with the OP's theme to hold his bag up to his theory.

Well said Misty from the UK.

Not everyone has a naked eye that is up to the task. Should they be denied the enjoyment of having a reasonable chance of playing a good shot just because of that?

[TheLauncher]

Iacas,

Of course guessing yardage is not an essential part of the game, especially give yardage markers and the electronic devices in question. But how is judging distance not an essential part of the game? As in, "how hard do I want to hit this putt?", "how much to carry the bunker?" or even "How high do I have to hit it to clear the tree ahead?"

And no I wouldn't advocate banning yardage markers, nor would I go so far as to ban GPS or rangefinders. However, I do think they are more accurate than pacing off yardage (human element) and in some case more accurate than yardage markers on the course. Also, markers may be at 100, 150 and 200 from the center of the green. The devices can be used from anywhere on the course and use the flag as a target. They are inherently more versatile and accurate than pacing, eyeing or yardage markers.

Many of you are able to judge the distance accurately and confirm your accuracy later with an electronic device. This is testament to the fact that with experience a golfer should be able to judge distance well enough to hit a close golf shot. If not, it probably has more to do with the swing than misjudging the distance. For those of you that us them, how much closer on average will your shots end up being, provided an accurate distance for each (assuming approaches here)? Really, for something that in my opinion can otherwise detract from the game, by keeping people "plugged in" and less in touch with their paying partners and surroundings, is it all that much more accurate? Is it worth it?

And while I don't have the patience to cut, paste and quote as you have done, I'd like to point out that I think you have either misinterpreted several of the things I've said, or exaggerated them for effect. I stated that insofar as the devices are able to perform a function of the eyes, (judging distance, obviously) they are "essentially" a robotic replacement for them. Never did I suggest that they might be able to read greens or admire a sunset. Although I'm sure one could come up with a green reading device too.

[TheLauncher]

I guess the guys who HATE GPS also hate seeing people make informed decisions.

...dude, c'mon. That is absolutely ridiculous. Also, if there is anyone here who actually hates GPS, that's sad. We're trying to have an adult conversation about whetehr or not they are right for the game, not attack personal character.

[iacas]

Of course

If you can't be certain of the distance, "making an educated guess" and "judging" are exactly the same thing.

As in, "how hard do I want to hit this putt?",

Yes.

"how much to carry the bunker?"

No.

or even "How high do I have to hit it to clear the tree ahead?"

Yes.

The ones to which I've said "yes" to are not about distance. Nobody measures the distance of their putts with a laser. And nobody measures the height of a tree with their laser. Under the Rules of Golf, distance measurements are considered common knowledge: "Information on the Rules, distance or matters of public information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick on the putting green, is not advice." Yardage measuring devices do not provide advice. "How hard do I hit this putt" and "can I clear that tree" are advice.

And no I wouldn't advocate banning yardage markers, nor would I go so far as to ban GPS or rangefinders. However, I do think they are more accurate than pacing off yardage (human element) and in some case more accurate than yardage markers on the course. Also, markers may be at 100, 150 and 200 from the center of the green. The devices can be used from anywhere on the course and use the flag as a target. They are inherently more versatile and accurate than pacing, eyeing or yardage markers.

Great! Which is why they're so useful and give every amateur player the yardages a good caddie can provide to a player with a caddie.

This is testament to the fact that with experience a golfer should be able to judge distance well enough to hit a close golf shot.

Why should having to guess at something the Rules consider non-advice and public or common knowledge prevent me from hitting an even better shot that's even closer to the hole?

For those of you that us them, how much closer on average will your shots end up being, provided an accurate distance for each (assuming approaches here)?

Several yards closer, on average, particularly on golf courses with which I'm not incredibly familiar.

Really, for something that in my opinion can otherwise detract from the game, by keeping people "plugged in" and less in touch with their paying partners and surroundings, is it all that much more accurate? Is it worth it?

Given that I don't feel it "detracts" from the game or does anything to make me "less in touch" with my paying [sic] partners and surroundings," it is worth it. But you had to see that answer coming...

It doesn't detract from the game and it doesn't make me any less a part of my group or my surroundings. And even if it did just a little, a golf cart is 100x more likely to do those things.

I stated that insofar as the devices are able to perform a function of the eyes, (judging distance, obviously) they are "essentially" a robotic replacement for them.

And that seems to be based upon your belief that the primary or even sole function of your eyes is to measure distance.

Guess what: golf doesn't require good eyesight or even eyesight at all to play. If a blind guy or a guy with cataracts or something has a good caddie, he can still play good golf. It's very simple: the rules allow everyone to know the yardage. Yardage markers in the fairway stopped people from pacing off the yardages all the way to the greens, and now GPS/lasers (I greatly prefer the latter) stop people from having to pace off yardages from even those. Having the yardage doesn't detract from the game for me. It does for you, but clearly you're in the minority.

Never did I suggest that they might be able to read greens or admire a sunset. Although I'm sure one could come up with a green reading device too.

They do exist. They're illegal.

Rangefinders are not.

[TheLauncher]

To clarify, having the correct yardages does not detract from my game. Carrying and using a device might. In all honesty, I'd really like to borrow one or get one so I can see exactly how it does affect my game.

Also I am fully aware that the rules of golf consider distances common knowledge and this is why the devices are allowed. It just seems to me (maybe I am too familiar with my course) that I can judge distances well enough to play at my low standard, with out the (perhaps minor) encumbrance of GPS or laser.

[Zeph]

I make do without a rangefinder too, but should I play a course with poor yardage markers or without knowing where on the green the flag is, I'll have to spend more time finding the distance. As at mid handicapper, which you also are, a shot off with some yardages won't ruin things. When we (I'm hopeful) get to single digits and lower, you have to play better and even make birdies regularly. Having good distance control and knowing the yardages is an important part of scoring low.

[shankapotamus]

I also say NO! to caddies who earn 10% of my pro winnings so that they can walk the course for several days measuring the distances from every bush and tree. Give me a break. Why should poor duffers like us have to give up something that every pro has--accurate distances.

I'm fairly certain there allowed to use GPS before the tournament to get distances.

[Cussin hacker]

To clarify, having the correct yardages does not detract from my game. Carrying and using a device might. In all honesty, I'd really like to borrow one or get one so I can see exactly how it does affect my game.

You need to play more than your home course before getting on a high horse about how others choose to play. You have based most of your comments on your own opinion as it relates to your game. As I said ealier. I have poor depth perception and judging distance is a problem for me. Eyesite is not what it once was. It's a bigger problem when I play a course I'm not familar with. Should I and others be penalized for this? Hell No!!

[sean_miller]

GPS and/or rangefinders are doing the job that pacing yardages from well placed and ample yardage markers should do. You should carry your bag down the fairway and as you walk past the nearest yardage marker, you should pace off the distance to the ball. Ball's off to the side? Estimate yardage by 10s or visualize moving through the irons as your eye scans from from the nearest yardage marker to your ball (9 iron, 8 iron, 7 iron, soft 6 - I have a soft 6 iron to the middle of the green).

That argument and that process is fine when you're walking and carrying - often it's not up to you - 400 yards between the green and next tee and forced carts. And this process also assumes you're always playing for middle of the green.

The real problems I have with rangefinders are as follows:

1.) I don't have one. Although I'm old school (prefer to walk, carry, play blades - not the ones in my profile photo, use a driver from 1998, hit Top Flites, broken tees, carry a paper scorecard, and pace my own yardages), I will ask if there aren't any visible markers or I'm trying to cut a corner over water or trees. I hope they're telling me the truth, and when I doubt the answer I play safe - also old school.

2.) It does take away from the social aspect of the game, but if someone would rather stare at a GPS for 4 hours than BS about sports and life, or accept an offer of a flask and a smoke, then that's probably for the best for all parties.

3.) Exact yardages don't prevent Mr GPS from taking a chance he shouldn't, like trying to steer a driver down a narrow fairway that calls for a long iron, trying to hit a fade around a dog-leg when he's been hitting a pull hook all day. It could be a coincidence (it probably is) but I see a lot of people driving their cart where it doesn't belong so they'll know the exact yardage to the pin that's approximately 230 yards away - if they ever find their ball. Just get it back to the fairway, dumbass.

Basically, I wish I had one (especially if I play a round alone) but I'd rather not be forced to use one. The one thing I won't miss (when I finally get one) is being duped into just clearing a greenside bunker that turns out to be 60 yards from the green - damned tricky course architects!

[zunofan]

I feel the yardage computers take away from the game. The fun is to look at the markers and think, maybe easy 6 or a 7. I have to also say I'm '"real" tired of my golf partners looking a their I phone or other yardage computer and spending WAY TOO long analizing their shot. As you can probably can tell I think yardage computers are a NO GO!

When you are dealing with a course with wrong distances its nice to have the accuracy of gps. What about the pros, their caddys walk off every possible yardage they can. The golfer isn't just relying on sprinkler heads and yardage posts. Its nice to have the same advantages.

[Zeph]

GPS and/or rangefinders are doing the job that pacing yardages from well placed and ample yardage markers should do. You should carry your bag down the fairway and as you walk past the nearest yardage marker, you should pace off the distance to the ball. Ball's off to the side? Estimate yardage by 10s or visualize moving through the irons as your eye scans from from the nearest yardage marker to your ball (9 iron, 8 iron, 7 iron, soft 6 - I have a soft 6 iron to the middle of the green).

In your opinion pacing yardages is the right way, many disagree.

1.) I don't have one. Although I'm old school (prefer to walk, carry, play blades - not the ones in my profile photo, use a driver from 1998, hit Top Flites, broken tees, carry a paper scorecard, and pace my own yardages), I will ask if there aren't any visible markers or I'm trying to cut a corner over water or trees. I hope they're telling me the truth, and when I doubt the answer I play safe - also old school.

Time to wake up then. Golf has changed a lot the last 10 years. You can play old school all you want, but times change.

2.) It does take away from the social aspect of the game, but if someone would rather stare at a GPS for 4 hours than BS about sports and life, or accept an offer of a flask and a smoke, then that's probably for the best for all parties.

How do you conclude with this? Finding the yardage takes 10 seconds, you can talk bs all you want the rest of the time. You don't have to look at the GPS or into a Rangefinder all the time. Most people use them on approach shots. In fact, I'd say you can talk more bs with a GPS which give you a yardage instantly instead of pacing up the distance where you probably want to focus on counting the paces, not talk to your partner.

*Walking up to the 200 yard mark* "One, two, three, four, five, six,....twentytwo* *Walking up to the ball* "You know that guy on job today? He fell asleep in a barrell!" *GPS: 178 yards* A GPS can also be a very valuable tool in finding your distances with the various clubs. You can measure any shot you take to see if it's what you expected. There is a lot of complaining about the 300-yard-drive-guys on this forum, having a GPS or rangefinder you can check the distance on every drive to find you average, which is the most interesting stat when it comes to driving distance. If you are 165 yards from the centre of the green, pick a 6i and carry it just onto the edge of the green, you can learn that your 6i might not be able to reach from 165 yards out. Distance is a static part of golf. Your ball comes to rest at a distance and doesn't move until you do something. Having to fight your own swing, mentality and weather conditions, knowing the distance can make you more confident and you have one less thing to worry about.

[sean_miller]

In your opinion pacing yardages is the right way, many disagree.

Is this officially "multi-quote" day? Disagree with my quoteless post if you wish, but since I actually stated that I do agree with using them, and intend to eventually buy one, spare me the multi-quote counterpost. My experience with playing partners and GPS is, for the most part, good. I was citing just one behaviour, which I experienced last week. There are many paths to the way - enjoy yours.