No 1. Golf Course in the World

[RC]

Golf Magazine (by Sports Illustrated) has once again released its top 100 courses issue... and Pine Valley (NJ) comes in as number one -- it usually does in these kinds of polls and rankings.

If you see this issue, the picture is a fantastic view of the famously difficult tenth hole. The picture is from front left, in front of the tee. It is only about 148 yards long, a nice 9 iron, maybe an 8 depending on the wind. I think it has one of the highest average over-par scores of any hole you can find (if you took an average of your scores for many rounds.) In the Walker Cup, some of the best amatuers in the world scored double digits on this one. And, as I have posted here before, a fine golfer turned the front nine in 38 strokes only to score a 38 on this hole.

Hitting the green is no guarantee the ball will stay on the green, and missing the green is, typically, a certain big number. There are no rakes at Pine Valley, you play the traps as they lie. The front right bunker is the hardest one to escape I have ever seen... you might be better off to simply take an unplayable and re-tee. It is like being in a bunker shaped like a narrow snow cone cup. However, I think Pine Valley is a very fair course -- if you never miss a shot.

I've played many, many fine golf courses (quite a few on the top 100 list) and Pine Valley (NJ) is the absolutely hardest track I have ever played... and it is not even a long course by any standard. My favorite course is Augusta National, but Pine Valley is the truest test of golf, in my opinion. Nothing like it -- a unique place.

[Knockglock]

Sounds like a very intense and challenging golf course! I definitely am going to have to play it at some point in my golfing career.

[Big_M]

While I would love to play Pine Valley and Augusta... I probably never will. Therefore, I pay much more attention the the top 100 you can play or 100 public (depending which magazine)... and I have checked off quite a few from those lists.

[RC]

And I agree with you... access is an issue. If, by some way, you get an invitation or opportunity to play any of the courses on the top 100 which are otherwise inaccessible, and you are a golf fanatic, try to find a way to make it happen. There is something special about these types of courses that create lifetime memories.

After rereading my first post, it dawned on me that it was a bit in poor taste to mention PV and Augusta... but believe me, I was certainly not a member of either. I've played both many times, but only by the being invited to do so by a member. Fortunately, there are courses on the top 100 list that are accessible for everyone to play.

[Clambake]

....... PV and Augusta... but believe me, I was certainly not a member of either. I've played both many times, but only by the being invited to do so by a member. Fortunately, there are courses on the top 100 list that are accessible for everyone to play.

If you and your member friend have trouble filling a foursome some time at either PV ro Augusta, give me a quick call. Since I live in San Diego I could use a little notice, but I can be there the next day if necessary. Drinks are on me in the clubhouse afterwards!

[enduro]

You've played Augusta many times? You are incredibly lucky. How was it? Have you played it as its changed over the last 10 years? I need to find a friend whose a member there, lol. Pretty elite club to be a member of.

I agree, it's good to get out and try some of these ultra-awesome courses. Unfortunately cost is an issue. It's hard to justify $300.00 for greens, plus a caddy and whatever else, making it cost over $500.00 to shoot a round of golf. Maybe for St. Andrews...or Pebble Beach. There's also many public courses that don't cost an arm and a leg that are pretty amazing too. A lot of that cost is the amenities they provide, such as picking my clubs up for me and parking my vehicle.

Then again, I have little issue dropping $125.00+ on dinner and drinks at nice restaurants. So I guess it's all priorities. (I guess I do the same thing with restaurants. I'll plan trips around a few places I've been wanting to try and sometimes they aren't cheap at all.)

That 10th hole you describe doesn't sound fair. Isn't that sort of becoming goofy-golf at that point? A challenge here and there is great. But who like playing on

[DavidFehertysBike]

My instructor has played both, and thinks Pine Valley is a much better course. He has told me that Augusta is one of the most overrated courses he has ever played. (though he played it in members condition back in the 90's when the course didnt have rough, apparently) He said without all of the grandstands and spectators, the course is actually wide open and boring in some stretches. Augusta will favor short game finese, and that PV is more or a pure ballstrikers course.

[RC]

I would not say Augusta is over rated at all. or not a challenging course. It is long, the greens are an extreme challenge, and the shot making calls for unbelieveable precision. Yes, I have played it dozens of times, and if there was only one last round of golf to be played in my life, I would choose Augusta without hesitation. It is true the rough is not knee high and if you can find your ball in the trees, you can hit it off pine needles and punch it through a forrest of tall slender tree trunks. That causes some to think missing the fairway is not the end of the world, and it isn't. But the water hazards and strategic layout of the holes is to my mind a perfect test of golf. It is immaculate. Far more hilly than you might imagine, with more green countour and probably the fastest greens anyone would ever play. The members like the greens faster than the tournament speed the pros play them -- I know that for a fact. No one wants the tournament to be a circus because the greens get too fast.

Pine Valley is all about managing your ball... just hit it where you are supposed to and forget the idea of over-powering the course. If you try to over-power it, it will absolutely bite your leg off. Maybe one of the better ways to play a par five there is 4 iron, 4 iron, 4 iron... and 2 putts and be happy you did not make a 10. I think that is fair. Hit the shot you are asked to hit. They say the first time around Pine Valley might be your best score because you don't realize the dangers around the greens until you get to them. You can see the problems but it is not until you stand on the green that you realize, "oh my, if I had pushed that shot five more yards, it would have been the end of the world." It is a pure shot-makers course.

[Chief Broom]

Maybe it's because I'm just not a very good golfer, but I really don't care for modern ultra-hard golf courses. On a trip down to Panama City Beach, Fl. this summer I played a Nicklaus resort course there. I didn't enjoy it. Around about the 16th hole I was ready for it to be over, and I'm a guy who loves to play 36 in a day and wouldn't have a problem going for 54. Quite simply the course was no fun to play. I played from the second set of tees. It has 4 sets with the first being the tips, but I doubt playing from the shortest would have added to my enjoyment of the round. What made the course hard were the approaches to most of the greens narrowed down and you had water, sometimes surrounding the green on more than one side. Being a bogey golfer means I don't hit a lot of greens and on that course your only option for missing the green was right in front. A miss on the wrong side usually meant taking a drop and trying again. And then the greens were just awful. Fantasitic condition but hell to putt on. I actually putted fairly well, but that's just because I didn't bother trying on my second putts and for some oddball reason they kept dropping. But I sure couldn't get anything inside of 4-6' on my first putt from anywhere.

Maybe I'm whining? I makes sense to build some courses for the better player, but those aren't courses I really care about playing. For my money give me a course that is wide open without a lot trouble that you can get into. My biggest challenge on the course is hitting golf shots. All extreme course conditions do is make that already chancy proposition for me all the more remote.

[P3R3]

No rakes? What the hell is that?! That is one of the more stupid things I have heard a course do.

[RC]

It is a history and tradition thing.

[iPutt]

Since I'm a NYS resident, 45 bucks I think to play Bethpage Black on weekdays, a bit more for weekends. Oh and I can make reservations . Didn't play it this season but plan to next year. This year is the Green and Red for me.

[wolverine_man]

I would give my left testicle to play Pine Valley and Augusta. I had a friend in college who was very well off and he played August, twice.

Ironically, I have a Pine Valley Polo golf shirt that I bought from TJ Maxx. I always get comments every time I wear it.

[RC]

Pine Valley and Augusta are great experiences, unique in this world... but not worth a body part, especially one of those you mention. Maybe when I am over 80 years old and have one last wish I might consider "losing one" for one last round, but the problem then would be I could not reach the greens in regulation from the big boy tees.

[I <3 Titleist]

Maybe it's because I'm just not a very good golfer, but I really don't care for modern ultra-hard golf courses. On a trip down to Panama City Beach, Fl. this summer I played a Nicklaus resort course there. I didn't enjoy it. Around about the 16th hole I was ready for it to be over, and I'm a guy who loves to play 36 in a day and wouldn't have a problem going for 54. Quite simply the course was no fun to play. I played from the second set of tees. It has 4 sets with the first being the tips, but I doubt playing from the shortest would have added to my enjoyment of the round. What made the course hard were the approaches to most of the greens narrowed down and you had water, sometimes surrounding the green on more than one side. Being a bogey golfer means I don't hit a lot of greens and on that course your only option for missing the green was right in front. A miss on the wrong side usually meant taking a drop and trying again. And then the greens were just awful. Fantasitic condition but hell to putt on. I actually putted fairly well, but that's just because I didn't bother trying on my second putts and for some oddball reason they kept dropping. But I sure couldn't get anything inside of 4-6' on my first putt from anywhere.

I'm not a good golfer either, but I think premium tour caliber golf courses teach golfers like myself a lot about just how good professional golfers are. I play some of the harder courses in Austin, and it can be frustrating at times, but I love how well they are put together / maintained.

[misty_mountainhop]

...Pine Valley is all about managing your ball...

I'd love to play PV and Augusta but I'm not sure having only

one option to play a hole is that good a course design is it?

[SKMoss]

Got the issue today. Peeked at the list, and actually consider myself lucky. I've played #40 Inverness once. It was a fun track. Not sure why it would be considered that high though. It's a pretty basic course. Decent greens. Nothing in it, stood out as remarkable.

[mhodar13]

I've never played any famous or legendary courses, but if I could play any 3 courses in my life I'd pick St. Andrews, TPC Boston, and either TPC Sawgrass or Firestone (which is actually only about 45 minutes to an hour from my house.