Your Putting Style: Utley or Pelz?

[iacas]

Ouch. You shouldn't have said that.

You should have tried to understand what I said before trying to "correct" me originally.

Dave Pelz', his shortgame teacher, says he putts square to square. He has tested his swings hundreds of times, and has worked with him for countless hours.

No he doesn't. Find an example and then - better yet - watch Phil putt. The toe clearly opens and closes.

Plus Phil is one of the worst short putters among the top golfers. His rate from six feet is far below the rates of other better putters.

I think I trust him more than a swollen-headed 4 handicap.

No need for name calling. Enjoy your negative reputation.

[Monty23]

You are right. I have now come to the conclusion that you, the average golfer, infact know more about Phil's putting technique then his own short game coach and world renowned teacher who wrote the bible on Putting.

Phil has a square to square stroke. You sit there on the couch watching him through a camera that is not on-line and without gridlines, which is not reliable. Even if you are standing there watching him putt in a tournament, your eyes will decieve you in the same way. You have to get your eyes on line, (or the camera) or vertically above the swing motion to see whether or not it's rotating. Untill then you can not conclude whether or not he uses the Pils Stroke or Utley's stroke.

You have not done this. Dave Pelz' has. I really don't know why I'm arguing this, I feel like I'm talking to a rock.

[tartanjack]

Phil has a square to square stroke... I really don't know why I'm arguing this, I feel like I'm talking to a rock.

You're talking to more than one rock... Mickelson is not square to square. This discussion has gotten a little out of hand. So I hesitate to put my two cents in... but you obstinancy forces me to.

Phil has a unique style with his right shoulder high and a very short putter... as iacas pointed out a heel-shafted putter. He clearly arcs the putter back and opens the face ever so slightly. The face closes on the forward stroke and then instead of releasing the toe completely ala Tiger, on shorter putts he blocks it. On longer putts he lets it release more (he almost has to from the posture he uses). It's a unique style that except for the block on short putts clearly mimics Crenshaw's set up and stroke. As an aside, I think that blocking action is responsible for his streakiness... his timing has to be perfect. So while he may not be pure Utley, he's certainly not pure Pelz. Let's move on.

[Monty23]

You're talking to more than one rock... Mickelson is not square to square. This discussion has gotten a little out of hand. So I hesitate to put my two cents in... but you obstinancy forces me to.

Ugh. Once again, re-read my statement about being on-line with your view point. You have never seen any one of these strokes on-line or above the swing motion, so what your seeing is invalid.

[iacas]

Ugh. Once again, re-read my statement about being on-line with your view point. You have never seen any one of these strokes on-line or above the swing motion, so what your seeing is invalid.

We have. You're wrong. Stop posting in this thread or you'll have a short vacation.

And it's "you're."

[tartanjack]

Ugh. Once again, re-read my statement about being on-line with your view point. You have never seen any one of these strokes on-line or above the swing motion, so what your seeing is invalid.

Actually, I have seen it down the line. Give it up. You're getting tiresome.

[Monty23]

Are we really stooping to the level of pointing out grammar mistakes? Come on now.

I just have a hard time believing that a 4 and 6 handicapper know more about Phil Mickelsons stroke then his own coach. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you guys are infact world renowned coaches in the making. However, until then, I think we should give Dave Pelz' the respect and benefit of the doubt and believe him until we have evidence and data to prove otherwise. Support your claim's with factual evidence, and then we can talk. Until then, let's leave it to the guys who know what their talking about. This is my last post in this thread. Thanks.

[mybloodinvt]

i think that as a matter of nature, everybody starts out in the utley school. if they are unlucky, someone comes around and says, "oh no, you are doing that all wrong," and switches you to the pelz school. i say that out of personal experience. over the course of the past 5-6 years, my putting has gotten progressively worse, and recently, my putting has been atrocious. so when the new season starts out in the spring, i am going split grip all the way and hopefully that will work for me. putting is all about what feels right to you, so don't let anyone tell you how you should be putting unless you ask or you are really bad. spend a little, or alot, more time on the putting green and feel it out.

[iacas]

I just have a hard time believing that a 4 and 6 handicapper know more about Phil Mickelsons stroke then his own coach.

Again, Pelz has never said he putts square to square.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you guys are infact world renowned coaches in the making.

We never said we were. However, we're observant, and we know what an arc putting stroke looks like. You, apparently, do not and would rather talk about "angles" and make up Pelz quotes.

However, until then, I think we should give Dave Pelz' the respect and benefit of the doubt and believe him until we have evidence and data to prove otherwise. Support your claim's with factual evidence, and then we can talk.

Like you? You've not supported anything. You can't prove a negative, and the "negative" is that Pelz has never said Phil putts completely in the Pelz manner.

Until then, let's leave it to the guys who know what their talking about. This is my last post in this thread. Thanks.

Enjoy your vacation. This is your last post on the forum for a week or so.

[NCGolfer]

(At the risk of being called a swollen-headed rock.)

Monty. Dude. Don't judge them by their handicaps or what you deem an "average" golfer. Erik and Jack have more knowledge about golf in their pinky fingers than you (or me...and I'm a scratch.)

I agree with them not because I know them, but because I've seen Phil from the angles you talk about. He putts exactly like Jack described.

The fact that you're the only one arguing your side should tell you something.

[RX Phoenix]

Thanks for this thread, I had forgotten about the Utley method and have been square to square for a long time, but tried the inside, square, inside today and found that it worked very well, much to my surprise.

I would say that Yes, the square, square may be a bit unnatural.

I may have to switch styles .l . . anything that works LOL!

[John Boy]

I am a fan of straight back, straight thru. I actually open my stance a little, like a chip, to make this easier.

My 4 year old said it right though...

He was on Santa's lap this last year and Santa asked him what he wanted for Christmas. Jacob, my son, said he wanted a putter. Santa replied "so you can hit the ball?" My son, god bless his heart, said "No dummy, you role the ball with your putter."

Whatever stroke you can hit to put a good solid role on the ball is best.

[ezmoney5150]

I use a belly putter and in my mind, that's not saying alot, the Pelz style is the only style.

[Fourputt]

I don't generally get into the mechanics of any part of my swing, because when I do, it just screws me up. I certainly won't be changing what is already an effective putting stroke by anything I've read here. My stroke feels good and it works for me, and after all, that is what counts.

That said, mine is probably more Pelz than Utley, although I doubt that either would lay claim to inspiring it. My primary swing thought when putting, especially for putts inside of 10 feet, is to chase the ball down the target line, and to that effect, I try to finish square. I'm not saying that I do, but what I FEEL is that I am finishing square. In order to feel that I'm finishing square, I pretty much have to also FEEL like I'm starting square, which is why I say that I'm probably closer to Pelz in stroke shape if not in technique.

I've never read a book by either, so I'm only talking about what I feel when I putt. I've never seen my stroke, either in video or in a mirror, and I like it that way.

[CusePhil]

Utley for me. I read his book and love his setup and feel technique.

[diesel]

Utley. I tryed the straight-straight, but would often take it to the outside while trying not to take it inside.

[Crafty]

My stroke is a bit odd. On anything inside roughly 15 or 20 feet, my stroke is straight back and through. However, if I take my putter back any further it naturally arcs and becomes the "Utley" style putting stroke. This allows me to have the simplicity of a pendulum stroke on short putts and the extra feel of the arcing stroke on longer putts. I know that Annika Sorenstam putts this way also.

[andre112]

After I read pelz's book, I was like wow his idea of putting stroke must be the best. Then I went on and trying to learn his stroke and found it almost humanly impossible to do without rotating my wrist to keep the putter face square. The drill he mentioned about strapping a stick on your shoulder , stand in a door frame, and rotate it vertically without hitting anything.
I got mad trying to do that. Unless I bend over with my spine parellel to the ground, there's no way I can do straight back straight thru.