"Deep" Hands Explained (or "Depth")

[mvmac]

How do you get the angle of the stick correct?

You'd basically want to see the shoulders turn at about a right angle to the address inclination. So you try to get close to that but for emphasis and how you have to hold it, the stick will end up being a little steeper than that. It's not something that has to be exact with, just holding the stick at an angle to where they can't lift their arms above their shoulders should work great.

[Crazycanuck44]

Ok great tyvm.

[Crazycanuck44]

I see lines that are parallel here that is why I asked..

[mvmac]

I see lines that are parallel here that is why I asked..

Yeah I think that's just a coincidence, I didn't even notice it.

[Crazycanuck44]

It's the carpenter in me...

[SoundandFury]

Reviving an old thread.  Getting a little confused based on what I'm working on.  My main priority right now is NOT sucking the hands too far inside.  Remembered this thread, and I'm trying to figure out how the two concepts jive.  Video below is current iteration (I know I'm steep on the takeaway, working on that, but for now it gives me the feeling I need to keep me from pulling my left arm way across my body and to keep the club "in front"). Halfway back and up looks close to where I'm trying to get. @iacas , based on this thread though it looks like now I'm not getting my hands deep enough...

[mvmac]

Reviving an old thread.  Getting a little confused based on what I'm working on.  My main priority right now is NOT sucking the hands too far inside.  Remembered this thread, and I'm trying to figure out how the two concepts jive.  Video below is current iteration (I know I'm steep on the takeaway, working on that, but for now it gives me the feeling I need to keep me from pulling my left arm way across my body and to keep the club "in front"). Halfway back and up looks close to where I'm trying to get.  @iacas , based on this thread though it looks like now I'm not getting my hands deep enough...

Yes, not sucking the hands is a piece or feel for you but more importantly it's about not sucking the right tricep behind you.

Your hands are gaining depth on the backswing, they're are in front of your chest and the left arm is across your chest somewhat. There isn't an exact measurement you need to hit. Also your camera is a little behind you, that'll make the hands look like they work "straighter" back.

There is a myth in golf that the hands or club travel straight back, this thread helps to bust that myth. @iacas does a nice job of explaining deeps hands in the initial post. Guys that struggle with gaining enough depth either don't turn enough on the backswing or lose the connection between the upper left arm and the left pec on the takeaway.

Aaron Baddeley has "deep" hands here. They're still "in front of him" (his chest is still facing us), but he's got good pressure points in his right and left armpits. If you maintain those pressure points from the takeaway and pivot about your centers, letting your right hip rotate back and up (left and up in this view), your hands will get deep.

[Buckeyebowman]

Just ran into this, and didn't realize just how old this thread was. What can you do for a guy who goes back straight to position "C"! He gets the club up over his shoulder and lays it off to boot! He then chops down on the ball from outside in, and hits weak pop ups to the right.

Early in this season he was just flat killing the ball! Striping it a mile and right down the middle! Then, this weirdness crept into his swing, and we are at a loss to explain why or how to fix it.

[Hacker James]

14 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Just ran into this, and didn't realize just how old this thread was. What can you do for a guy who goes back straight to position "C"! He gets the club up over his shoulder and lays it off to boot! He then chops down on the ball from outside in, and hits weak pop ups to the right.

Early in this season he was just flat killing the ball! Striping it a mile and right down the middle! Then, this weirdness crept into his swing, and we are at a loss to explain why or how to fix it.

That sounds like a sudden departure from whatever this "guy" was doing before. Has he undergone some new instruction perhaps from a different instructor or coach?  Also in the thread below "Hand depth comes from pivot/turn" would be applicable.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Hacker James

[mvmac]

17 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Just ran into this, and didn't realize just how old this thread was. What can you do for a guy who goes back straight to position "C"! He gets the club up over his shoulder and lays it off to boot! He then chops down on the ball from outside in, and hits weak pop ups to the right.

Early in this season he was just flat killing the ball! Striping it a mile and right down the middle! Then, this weirdness crept into his swing, and we are at a loss to explain why or how to fix it.

Tough to say without seeing it, most likely something to do with the pivot/turning properly.

[Buckeyebowman]

4 hours ago, mvmac said:

Tough to say without seeing it, most likely something to do with the pivot/turning properly.

I keep telling him his swing is too upright and laid off, leading him to chop down on the ball. He even tees the ball low for his Driver, about where most would tee a 3 wood. I tell him this encourages him to hit down on the ball since there doesn't seem to be any room behind it for a more "sweeping" motion.

What's odd is that when he makes practice swings, they are picture perfect! Then, when he actually goes to strike the ball, he reaches back for a little extra and lays the club off!

I straightened this dude's swing out once, just when he was considering giving up the game. Now, I am at a loss what to tell him.

[mvmac]

3 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I keep telling him his swing is too upright and laid off, leading him to chop down on the ball. He even tees the ball low for his Driver, about where most would tee a 3 wood. I tell him this encourages him to hit down on the ball since there doesn't seem to be any room behind it for a more "sweeping" motion.

What's odd is that when he makes practice swings, they are picture perfect! Then, when he actually goes to strike the ball, he reaches back for a little extra and lays the club off!

I straightened this dude's swing out once, just when he was considering giving up the game. Now, I am at a loss what to tell him.

More than likely he's teeing it low with the driver because of his swing, gives him a chance at hitting a decent shot. I'd look at two things, both could be happening,
1. If he's turning enough and at a steep enough angle.
2. If he's loading the shaft shallow on the backswing.

[Buckeyebowman]

Oh, he's not shallow! He goes right up to between his right shoulder and his head! Then he flops the club behind him! I honestly don't know where this has come from.

From the ground to waist high things look fine. Then everything goes vertical and up over the shoulder and laid off. I'm trying to get him to swing more "around" his body since the whole arc of his downswing seems to have tilted to outside in!

I'm getting to the point where I don't know what to tell him, and am about to suggest that he seek professional help!

I saved him once, but I don't know if I can do that this time. It seems to be beyond me.

[mvmac]

1 hour ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Oh, he's not shallow! He goes right up to between his right shoulder and his head! Then he flops the club behind him! I honestly don't know where this has come from.

By shallow I was referring to the shaft angle. So he goes steep to shallow to steep? 

Try to film it if you can, would be interesting to see.

1 hour ago, Buckeyebowman said:

From the ground to waist high things look fine. Then everything goes vertical and up over the shoulder and laid off. I'm trying to get him to swing more "around" his body since the whole arc of his downswing seems to have tilted to outside in!

Good drill would be to make 3/4 swings with tees in his left armpit or in both. Will "force" him to use more body, won't be able to lift the arms.

[Buckeyebowman]

Oh, he's not shallow! He goes right up to between his right shoulder and his head! Then he flops the club behind him! I honestly don't know where this has come from.

From the ground to waist high things look fine. Then everything goes vertical and up over the shoulder and laid off. I'm trying to get him to swing more "around" his body since the whole arc of his downswing seems to have tilted to outside in!

I'm getting to the point where I don't know what to tell him, and am about to suggest that he seek professional help!

I saved him once, but I don't know if I can do that this time. It seems to be beyond me.

Ok, don't know what happened here, but when I went to reply it quoted my last post! I don't know if that's a new feature here, but I'll keep going and see if it shows up when I actually click the "Submit Reply" button.

I like your idea mvmac. I've been trying anything to keep him from lifting the arms up between his shoulder and head, and "disconnecting" his arms from his body.

He also got a "tip", years ago, from some guy who is actually a very good golfer, played for Ohio State back in the day, about starting the downswing with the shoulders! I told him this is probably that guy's "feel", but that it's probably not "real".

I suspect that his guy got ahead of himself with his lower body and torso, leaving his arms and club stuck behind him. His idea of starting down with the shoulders was just a compensation, a way of staying "on the ball" instead of getting "underneath" it.

 

OK! My prior post did appear! Don't know why.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2016 by Buckeyebowman
Weird things going on!

[Rainmaker]

On 5/2/2015 at 8:56 AM, mvmac said:

 

Yes, not sucking the hands is a piece or feel for you but more importantly it's about not sucking the right tricep behind you.

 

Your hands are gaining depth on the backswing, they're are in front of your chest and the left arm is across your chest somewhat. There isn't an exact measurement you need to hit. Also your camera is a little behind you, that'll make the hands look like they work "straighter" back.

 

 

 

There is a myth in golf that the hands or club travel straight back, this thread helps to bust that myth. @iacas does a nice job of explaining deeps hands in the initial post. Guys that struggle with gaining enough depth either don't turn enough on the backswing or lose the connection between the upper left arm and the left pec on the takeaway.

 

I'm not sure who this is a pic of . .sorry about that, lol .. but the 2 bottom pics illustrate something I've recently discovered for myself about "deep hands" . .for me . .Deep Hands is great and all . .as long as it doesn't include a laid off shaft like the golfer in the left bottom pic has.  The golfer on the right bottom pic has the shaft inbetween his arms wheras the golfer on the bottom left has the shaft inline with his left arm.  This is so super key for me.  Keeping that shaft inbetween the arms gives me a tremendous increase in leverage.  You can tell from the 2 backswing positions . .golfer on the bottom right is going to take the most direct path through the ball, the golfer on the bottom left is going to have to re-route a bit.  It doesn't look like a huge deal...but the golfer on the right is going to hit it 10x (approximately, lol) harder than the golfer on the left.   

[mvmac]

Jack Nicklaus talking about changes he made from the late 70's into the 1980 season. From his perspective (as well as his instructor's, Jack Grout) he got into a bad habit of swinging his arms too upright and without enough depth on the backswing, which also limited his turn.

Basically depth is created by turning and the arms contribute to the "up". Jack always had "high" hands at the top of the backswing but he felt he swung his best when his hands were high and deep. '79 was his worst year as a pro and the changes he made certainly helped him continue to compete and win at a high level in the early to mid-80's.

[Hacker James]

@mvmac Interesting article. It sure took him long enough.