The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[iacas]

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

Having re-read the S&T; book this weekend and watching the Taly Mind training device videos on the www, I gave the flying wedge a go on the course today. I was either crushing it with a little draw or hitting a weak push-fade. I just couldn't put my finger on why such extremes. Does the weak push-fade come from my left arm disconnecting from my torso on the downswing, pushing the path too much out to the right?

I'm not really sure what you mean by "you gave it a go." To play any kind of reasonable golf you have had some sort of flying wedge. You were just, perhaps, trying to hold it a little bit longer.

I imagine you were probably actually hitting pull draws and when you were hitting the weak shots you simply left the face open because you hadn't gotten the clubface back to square. If the ball was cutting, you were not sending the path too far right .

Video would help, of course.

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

The hardest part about the flying wedge is knowing when to release it.

Educated hands ... ;-)

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by iacas

I'm not really sure what you mean by "you gave it a go." To play any kind of reasonable golf you have had some sort of flying wedge. You were just, perhaps, trying to hold it a little bit longer.

I imagine you were probably actually hitting pull draws and when you were hitting the weak shots you simply left the face open because you hadn't gotten the clubface back to square. If the ball was cutting, you were not sending the path too far right.

Video would help, of course.

Correct. I am trying to hold it a little bit longer to avoid my tendency to flip. You saw a video of mine a while back where you said I was OK, but could hold it for a fraction longer. I liked the video on here of the Taly Mind device and tried today to get my hands into the proper impact position as prescribed by Lynn Blake.

I really need to video my swing again as the ball was starting off way right of my target and fading. I thought I was coming from the inside with the clubface open relative to the swing path. I don't think it's possible to come OTT and start the ball 30-40 yards right of the target.

As soon as I get my new iPhone 4 (on Friday), I'll post a video ASAP after that.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

I really need to video my swing again as the ball was starting off way right of my target and fading. I thought I was coming from the inside with the clubface open relative to the swing path. I don't think it's possible to come OTT and start the ball 30-40 yards right of the target.

If they were starting that far right, then ignore anything I said about the path. You simply weren't squaring the face. It can be difficult at first while trying to add more wedge, but try this: pose a follow-through with wedge, then TWIST the shaft like you're reverse revving a motorcycle. You'll bow your left wrist a little more and may actually increase the flying wedge in the right wrist.

(Reverse) rev the motorcycle on the downswing with your left wrist. Bow the left wrist a little more. That's what gets the face square (square to where you want it, I mean, as opposed to WIDE open).

[nevets88]

Back to shanking.

If you don't do hands deep and/or lift up your hands on the backswing, is it possible this can promote a shank?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by nevets88

Back to shanking.

If you don't do hands deep and/or lift up your hands on the backswing, is it possible this can promote a shank?

It can, but IIRC, you can do more to keep your pressure points on your chest, particularly with your right arm. This will let you keep turning (to the left) and stop the sweet spot from continuing out to the right for too long.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by iacas

If they were starting that far right, then ignore anything I said about the path. You simply weren't squaring the face. It can be difficult at first while trying to add more wedge, but try this: pose a follow-through with wedge, then TWIST the shaft like you're reverse revving a motorcycle. You'll bow your left wrist a little more and may actually increase the flying wedge in the right wrist.

(Reverse) rev the motorcycle on the downswing with your left wrist. Bow the left wrist a little more. That's what gets the face square (square to where you want it, I mean, as opposed to WIDE open).

I found it very tough to square the face trying to add more wedge as it felt counterproductive. Standing over the ball and visualizing maintaining the wedge, the feeling was I was going to block it way right. Which I did pretty much constantly with the driver. Irons were better, but the tendency was still to push them right. I was also hitting them a little thin tbh. It's funny you should mention the reverse revving as this is something I found myself doing as the round went on and ballstriking did improve. I felt like I had to not only keep my left wrist flat, but actually bow it (bend it to the right) towards me.

Not surprisingly, I found this a lot easier to do with chips, pitches and bunker shots. I actually holed a chip and a bunker shot today!

[nevets88]

Originally Posted by iacas

It can, but IIRC, you can do more to keep your pressure points on your chest, particularly with your right arm. This will let you keep turning (to the left) and stop the sweet spot from continuing out to the right for too long.

Thanks. This worked. Shanks are gone. Making more contact towards the toe, which I think is good, because I can zone in on the center of the face now.

I worked on the pressure points of both armpits, more on the right. If I keep too much pressure on the right I hit fat.

If I keep too much pressure on both, contact towards the toe.

I found if I keep the feel of the pressure on the armpits towards the ball/front of body, I hit the ball more solid.

Now the misses are just a tad fat, but the solid shots are really good.

I think I need to combine this new feel with getting hips more tucked/forward.

[iacas]

Read everything you wrote, Steven. All good. Yeah, you can overdo them, but knowing what you were doing here I figured you were just letting your arms leave your body a little bit too much, indeed.

[nevets88]

Is there a most important time to keep the chest pp or throughout the swing?

Should I try the gloves in the armpits like this?

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by iacas

If they were starting that far right, then ignore anything I said about the path. You simply weren't squaring the face. It can be difficult at first while trying to add more wedge, but try this: pose a follow-through with wedge, then TWIST the shaft like you're reverse revving a motorcycle. You'll bow your left wrist a little more and may actually increase the flying wedge in the right wrist.

(Reverse) rev the motorcycle on the downswing with your left wrist. Bow the left wrist a little more. That's what gets the face square (square to where you want it, I mean, as opposed to WIDE open).

Excellent results with this drill! I am hitting the ball much better (lower ball flight from increased compression), 10-15% further with each club. I got into the habit of releasing the 5th acc. too soon thinking that would give me more power. Did someone say flipping?! Now I feel as if I am doing nothing with my wrists through impact. I simply try to visualize my hands 3 ft in front of the clubhead at impact!

[iacas]

Originally Posted by nevets88

Is there a most important time to keep the chest pp or throughout the swing?

Should I try the gloves in the armpits like this?

Sure. I think that's good. Just don't over-do it or you can start sending the path too far left or hitting the ball off the toe.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by iacas

Sure. I think that's good. Just don't over-do it or you can start sending the path too far left or hitting the ball off the toe.

Correct, Nick Jones can have a tendency to stay too closed for too long, so he likes to always practice with a glove under his left arm.

[Kujan]

I'm thinking I need to try the glove in the armpits thing because I setup with the ball in the toe to hit it in the middle of the club face.

[deronsizemore]

Originally Posted by iacas

Sure. I think that's good. Just don't over-do it or you can start sending the path too far left or hitting the ball off the toe.

I think this is my issue currently with wedges. Seems like on anything from 100 and in I am prone to hit it off of the toe lately. I think it's the combination of shorter shaft and overdoing the pressure points under my arms. No issues with toe hits with any other clubs, just wedges mostly. Even on little pitches around the green, I will sometimes hit them so far off the toe that it doesn't even seem possible to make contact there (some outside the grooves) and still advance the ball.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by deronsizemore

I think this is my issue currently with wedges. Seems like on anything from 100 and in I am prone to hit it off of the toe lately. I think it's the combination of shorter shaft and overdoing the pressure points under my arms. No issues with toe hits with any other clubs, just wedges mostly. Even on little pitches around the green, I will sometimes hit them so far off the toe that it doesn't even seem possible to make contact there (some outside the grooves) and still advance the ball.

Right elbow might be too far behind you.  Too much pp#4(left arm) can keep the right elbow trailing too much and then you dump all your wrist alignments.  I think this is a good feel or visual for how much of the pressure points to feel

[deronsizemore]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Right elbow might be too far behind you.  Too much pp#4(left arm) can keep the right elbow trailing too much and then you dump all your wrist alignments.  I think this is a good feel or visual for how much of the pressure points to feel

Thank you! What is he using between his arms there? I'd like to give this a try.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by deronsizemore

Thank you! What is he using between his arms there? I'd like to give this a try.

A ball.

[deronsizemore]

Originally Posted by iacas

A ball.

Yes, but what kind of ball? Is there a specific size that's better for this drill?