The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[nevets88]

Just curious, any overhead videos of stack and tilt swings?

[J_Bone]

Originally Posted by Precis1on

Currently the hip slide/bump is one of the hardest things for me to get down in S&T.; Especially when I'm warmed up and looking to hit the ball harder, I will default to my old swing and instantly turn my hips rather than sliding, which ends up forcing my body to cut across the ball.

To help this, I've been working very hard on keeping my right heel on the ground and not allowing my right foot to go to the toe. My end position looks more like a rolling of the right foot. So far this looks like it helps me from turning my hips too quickly and allows me to slide them instead.

I have struggled with this part myself. I tend to fly open like I'm pulling a shot to left field. It's either a strait pull or a nasty hook.

Originally Posted by Jooma

Perhaps natural ‘hookers’ of the ball will embrace this method, but how many natural hookers of the golf ball is there?

Since day one!

[deronsizemore]

Originally Posted by iacas

Here's a guess. Tell me if I'm right...

You "tried" S&T on your own one time on the range. It didn't go so well, and you deduced that because you're just a weekend golfer, it'd require too much effort to "get."

Right?

The problem with that approach is that you invariably did some things improperly. If it feels handsy, you're doing it wrong. S&T requires less hand action than a lot of swings (angled hinging versus more of a horizontal hinging action for those who know those terms).

Was going to say this.

I tried S&T about eight years ago before anyone even knew what it was. At the time, the guy who introduced it to me didn't give me much information about it besides "keep your weight on your left foot." I tried it and hit some good, some bad. I dismissed it shortly after that because I just didn't know a lot about it and it felt weird. It felt weird because I had no idea what I was doing. The bad thing is, I had no idea what I was doing when I was using my more "traditional" swing.

The same guy who introduced me to S&T eight years ago has been giving me lessons the past few months and I'm telling you, when you have someone who knows what they're doing watching over you and putting you in the positions you need to be in it's completely different. I've learned more in three lessons than I have in the previous eight years when I would struggle with some fades one week, draws the next, and then a big slice off the edge of the planet the next week.

If you're doing it correctly, you will not slice the ball.

[nevets88]

Not sure if it's the camera angle, but it doesn't look like it. Look at how far the hands are away from the body post impact. Why does it look like there's so much separation?

[michaeljames92]

Seems to have a CF release going on, which tends to bring the low point backwards. This is why the club extends down and to the right while the club re cocks and you can see that gap(think lucas glover). S&T teaches an inline release I believe which is in between a CF and CP release. A CP release is where the hands go well left after impact, keeping the hands tracing the circle(look at swings of sam snead). That will push the swing bottom forward slightly and with a straighter starting line and less curve.

Originally Posted by nevets88

Not sure if it's the camera angle, but it doesn't look like it. Look at how far the hands are away from the body post impact. Why does it look like there's so much separation?

[mvmac]

Nice post Mike.  Yeah, kind of a Rickie Fowler type release.  Does hit the exit though

[michaeljames92]

Would I be correct in saying that guys who tend to CP it, shift their baseline left and hence tend to slight fade it?

Originally Posted by mvmac

Nice post Mike.  Yeah, kind of a Rickie Fowler type release.  Does hit the exit though

[iacas]

Originally Posted by michaeljames92

Would I be correct in saying that guys who tend to CP it, shift their baseline left and hence tend to slight fade it?

Not really. A "CP release" (not the full swing, just the release) IS an "inline" release. It's on the plane. CP isn't really "under" or "left" of the plane. S&T is a lot closer to an inline/CP release than a CF release (ideally).

[michaeljames92]

Was looking at Michael Sim's swing from this years Players championship. Backswing looks great, on the downswing he loses connection and looks like he could get his hips further forward too. Thoughts?

[The_Pharaoh]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this, however I didn't want to start another thread on an S&T matter.

For those of you teaching S&T, have you had any problems with students shanking? Although I do not teach full S&T as I am not fully comfortable with it myself, I have introduced parts of the method (as let's be honest here, it works) into my teaching. Normally, I can get a slicer to start hitting a little draw within a few balls simply by telling them to put and keep their weight on their left leg throughout the swing, handle forward, clubface slightly open relative to the target, straighten right knee on backswing and don't rotate right hand over left at impact. However, recently one of my students, who used to be a chronic slicer and is now drawing the ball, has started shanking. For those of you teaching S&T or using S&T, what have you found is the typical reason for happening all of a sudden?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this, however I didn't want to start another thread on an S&T matter.

For those of you teaching S&T, have you had any problems with students shanking? Although I do not teach full S&T as I am not fully comfortable with it myself, I have introduced parts of the method (as let's be honest here, it works) into my teaching. Normally, I can get a slicer to start hitting a little draw within a few balls simply by telling them to put and keep their weight on their left leg throughout the swing, handle forward, clubface slightly open relative to the target, straighten right knee on backswing and don't rotate right hand over left at impact. However, recently one of my students, who used to be a chronic slicer and is now drawing the ball, has started shanking. For those of you teaching S&T or using S&T, what have you found is the typical reason for happening all of a sudden?

As you know there are only two reasons for a shank. One is that the path is to the left and the club head can't get "left" fast enough. The other is that the path is to the right and the club gets right too fast.

As for the specific causes, there are almost too many to list. Weight towards the toes or heels can both cause shanks. Head movement forward or back (relative to ball) can cause them. Etc.

But no, we haven't seen any more shanks than normal - or been unable to fix them quickly - among our students.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by iacas

As you know there are only two reasons for a shank. One is that the path is to the left and the club head can't get "left" fast enough. The other is that the path is to the right and the club gets right too fast.

As for the specific causes, there are almost too many to list. Weight towards the toes or heels can both cause shanks. Head movement forward or back (relative to ball) can cause them. Etc.

But no, we haven't seen any more shanks than normal - or been unable to fix them quickly - among our students.

Thanks Erik. It's only now and then as he usually hits a draw. However, recently he's developed a shank. His path is from the inside, because when he's hitting the ball solidly his misses are either pushes or over-draws. When the shank appears (or poor contact), I'm convinced it's because he is releasing the club face by rotating his right hand over his left through impact which occasionally sends the path to the outside and across the ball.

I was simply wondering if you had seen this sort of thing with your students going from slicers to drawers of the golf ball.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

Thanks Erik. It's only now and then as he usually hits a draw. However, recently he's developed a shank. His path is from the inside, because when he's hitting the ball solidly his misses are either pushes or over-draws. When the shank appears (or poor contact), I'm convinced it's because he is releasing the club face by rotating his right hand over his left through impact which occasionally sends the path to the outside and across the ball.

I was simply wondering if you had seen this sort of thing with your students going from slicers to drawers of the golf ball.

Nope, we really haven't. He'd probably do well to maintain his pressure points (specifically under his right arm).

[SpannersReady]

I recently had a stack and tilt lesson. It has all the same red flags and BS as an alternative medicine such as chiropractic or acupuncture. I don't really know much about golf science but this smacked of quackery

[iacas]

Originally Posted by SpannersReady

I recently had a stack and tilt lesson.

It has all the same red flags and BS as an alternative medicine such as chiropractic or acupuncture. I don't really know much about golf science but this smacked of quackery

Curious why you'd say that. Your lesson was with whom? What did you work on?

In the end, this may not be the thread for you:

Originally Posted by iacas

This thread is for the discussion of the pattern: parts you find difficult, information about the pieces, the ball flight, the terms they use (most of which are TGM), etc. It's a place where people can get help with the pattern if they've adopted it or get information from others who have adopted it for those who are interested.

[johnclayton1982]

I hope this doesn't hijack the thread, but I read the book, and one of the best things I came away from it was their steps to build a solid golf game:

1.  Consistent Contact

2.  Develop Power to play the courses / tees you want

3.  Accuracy

That really helped me get better.  Its too hard to do all three at once.  If you take a month and work on consistent contact, then two months and work on lagging the clubhead and swinging freely, then a couple months on accuracy, you can really improve.  I really liked how they made consistent contact the bottom line building block of their golf "method", which really made sense to me.  After these three are pretty good, I'd add "#4. Short Game".  Working on these things in this order really helped me break 80.  So, I think the overview of the method is really well laid out in the book, even if the actual mechanics of the swing arn't used (although the left shoulder dropping instead of just turning horizontally is genius).

[jwalker497]

Wrist cock is something that confuses me when it comes to S&T.;  Not sure how it relates to the Flying Wedge they preach

[michaeljames92]

You try to maintain the angle in your right wrist through impact(well at least enough) so you can hit the ball solidly. This also helps the club travel on a slight in to out path to help you draw it.

Originally Posted by jwalker497

Wrist cock is something that confuses me when it comes to S&T.;  Not sure how it relates to the Flying Wedge they preach