WM Phoenix Open

[Tiger Spuds]

That's the best you got...

I'm not a Ping hater, It was a light hearted comment man.But now that you mention it, his short game wasn't that good.. weakest part of his game in fact.That chip shot at the last was awful.And you realise any improvement he makes to his short game will not be down to some wonderous new Ping wedges, it'll be down to hard work on his part.

[FHopper]

Hunter's lovely new Driver cracked after 2 holes.Great advertisment for PING

You did not listen closely, it was his old Driver, he said it had served him a long time and he held no grudge against its failing.

[Tiger Spuds]

You did not listen closely, it was his old Driver, he said it had served him a long time and he held no grudge against its failing.

Does it matter?

I'm not a Ping hater, It was a light hearted comment man.

[Chas]

It was the wrong play. I don't care if he did make birdie - the odds of him doing so were greatly improved if he had gone for it. Shorter players had already gone for it in his group from farther back - and both made it. Rickie was battling for a win. He should have gone for it. Man up, dude.

hmmm, so let's see now ..... you (and some other posters here) know better than the player himself what his relative odds were in that scenario?? Pretty funny.

But I agree about Poulter flipping the bird - nice action shot of that ...... [p.s. was there a slow-mo? ....]

[iacas]

hmmm, so let's see now ..... you (and some other posters here) know better than the player himself what his relative odds were in that scenario??

Uhm, yes. The odds are the odds. Not only does the entire field score better when going for that green, but Rickie Fowler scores better on par fives when he goes for the green. Members of the press (and PGA Tour players, etc.) get access to ShotLink data, Chas.

[Chas]

"The odds" (that you refer to) don't matter much in that particular situation. ShotLink schmotlink ..... Clearly, it all depends on how he's been playing on that particular day with different clubs, how he feels about that particular situation he found himself in, etc etc. He obviously felt more comfortable with setting up for the wedge, and of course he very nearly made the putt so his thinking wasn't far off.

Having the numbers (per se) doesn't mean that much to me. It's as much about how you interpret the data as anything.

I thought the manufactured "controversy" by certain commentators on the box was a bit over the top - just MO but of course they're just doing their job .... RF handled it graciously and stuck to his guns in the interview that I saw, which is to his credit. This fellow will do very well in the future, he seems to have the right stuff.

Later: I just read the post about Snedeker's 78. Wha'happened??? I missed that somehow doing the vacuuming with all the TVs on - wish I'd taped the day's play.

[iacas]

"The odds" (that you refer to) don't matter much in that particular situation.

Yeah, they do. 210 yards? That's a 4-iron. If a professional golfer (let alone one playing near the top of his game) can't hit a massive target with a 4-iron from preferred lies, then he's not going to last on the PGA Tour for very long.

Pros - and amateurs - score better the closer they get to the green.

He obviously felt more comfortable with setting up for the wedge, and of course he very nearly made the putt so his thinking wasn't far off.

No, that was the hole where he had to make a five- or six-footer just to save par after his wedge spun off the front of the green.

I thought the manufactured "controversy" by certain commentators on the box was a bit over the top - just MO but of course they're just doing their job .... RF handled it graciously and stuck to his guns in the interview that I saw, which is to his credit. This fellow will do very well in the future, he seems to have the right stuff.

RF is a wimp who apparently decided that second place money - likely locking up his PGA Tour card for 2011 - mattered more than having the balls to go for a win.

At some point, going for it was the smart play, and that point was likely 20 or 25 yards BEHIND Rickie's golf ball.

[i-Guy]

I'm not a Ping hater,

Then why the negative comment regarding his driver and the manufacturer???

It was a light hearted comment man.

then maybe you should have put a smiley face behind your comment or somehting because it is hard to tell otherwise...

But now that you mention it, his short game wasn't that good.. weakest part of his game in fact.That chip shot at the last was awful.And you realise any improvement he makes to his short game will not be down to some wonderous new Ping wedges, it'll be down to hard work on his part.

I am fully aware that his short game is the weakest part of his game and being an 8 handicap I am fully aware of how much hard work it takes to have a solid short game regardless of what wedges you play but bottom line is that his short game was good enough to shoot 65 on Sunday and win the DANG tournament and the broadcasters made the comments about PING building him wedges that week...I just repeated it......

[Fat Slice]

...that second place money - likely locking up his PGA Tour card for 2011 - mattered more than having the balls to go for a win..

What was the 2nd place pot, $650K or so? And a locked-up tour card for 2011 has to look great to a guy who was fighting to get in just recently. Maybe playing the lay up *was* the smart play and took more balls than going for it. It all depends on your perspective, right? You can't win 1st place money if you're not on the tour.

[jamo]

RF is a wimp who apparently decided that second place money - likely locking up his PGA Tour card for 2011 - mattered more than having the balls to go for a win.

All of this is based on the outcome. If he had layed up and made a birdie and gone on to win, no one would mention it.

Case and point: David Toms, 2001 PGA Championship, 72nd hole. He had 210 out of the rough to a par 4 pin with water front. He had been hitting the ball well, especially with his long clubs, and had made an ace the day before. He decided to lay up because he didn't think he could pull it off. He makes a 12 ft par putt, and wins. If he had missed that putt, people would have raised hell over his decision. Personally, I think he should have gone for it , but 1 thing I found odd, PGATOUR.com's Shotlink says he had 230 yards (to the pin, but I can't remember where the pin was), which would change a lot. Also, (not directed at anyone in particular) I wouldn't pin this on Ricky being a rookie. He's played several PGA Tour events, and played D1 golf for a golf powerhouse, plus (I'd bet) countless junior events. He was well prepared, he made the play that he thought gave him the best chance. It's a demeaning hole, water everywhere, and the chances of hitting the island (however large) are diminished just by seeing the water. Do I think guy like Tiger or Phil would have gone for it? Hell yes, well, Phil would have gone for it from 310, but that's a different story. Maybe if Ricky could do it over he would go for it, but at that moment he felt it was the wrong choice, no matter what stats say, and I don't fault him for that.

[iacas]

What was the 2nd place pot, $650K or so? And a locked-up tour card for 2011 has to look great to a guy who was fighting to get in just recently. Maybe playing the lay up *was* the smart play and took more balls than going for it. It all depends on your perspective, right? You can't win 1st place money if you're not on the tour.

Nah. Even if he dunks it he could still make par, bogey at worst, and he'd have to miss every cut for the rest of the year to fail to get his PGA Tour card for 2011 (and likely not even that - a T2 would have given him more than $625k). And again, that's dunking it from 210 yards (4-iron) to a large, large target, failing to get up and down to save par, etc.

But hey, believe what you want. I'm going to believe he made a wimpy play.

[Chas]

Aha, seems I got the hole wrong then Erik. hmmmmm, guess that's what happens when you vacuum while you watch*, could've sworn it was the 18th .....

If RF made the decision based more on limiting the down-side, as suggested by some here, that would seem a reasonable thing to do at this stage of his career and not necessarily a sign of wimpishness. But we don't really know how tough-minded he is on the the Tour when push comes to shove and time will tell I suppose. He looked pretty cool and collected to me.

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.


*10 demerits (to me)

[Shanks A Million]

I'll put it this way. 230 yards is not even a tough shot for me, and I'm a handicapper. Ricky is probably a +6. He would need to hit just 200 yards to clear the water. Now, for a 10 handicap even, 200 yards may be a long carry, but for someone like Ricky Fowler, it's a cakewalk. I can clear 200 easy with a 3 iron, not even much thought goes into it, except maybe take a wood instead and hit it high and land it soft (sometimes a better play).

You want to make an omelet, you gotta break some eggs. A tour pro does not look down at his 3 iron and fear it, if he did, he would carry a hybrid, or he wouldn't be a tour pro. Sure, it's a lot of pressure, and it's a huge tournament, but it's also a fairly good litmus test. History will always forget the layup if the outcome goes in your favor, but as we've seen in the past (Chip Beck?), it never forgets what could have been. When you're leading a golf tournament, odds are you're hitting the ball pretty damn well that day, so it's safe to say that you can probably make the shot.

[Chilli Dipper]

Fowler may have also assumed that he'd have a chance for birdie on the final three holes to make up the gap between himself and Mahan; there was no reason to go for eagle. Of course, he had birdie looks on all of them, but none of the putts dropped. When a player is in contention to win a tournament, he gives up scoring opportunities at his own risk.

[Frank-0-Sport]

Greetings ...

Have not read every reply in this category, so forgive me if I may be repeating something already said.

A fact that is perhaps lost in all the "go/no go" debates RE Ricky Fowler ---

Fowler finished solo 2nd at the 2010 Phoenix Open. The $648,000 he earned brought his current year earnings to $875,432, more than enough to guarantee exempt status thru the end of 2011. This should make young Mr. Fowler look pretty good in many a sponsor's eye for the rest of 2010, as he is currently in the Q-School/Nationwide Tour exempt category. And it should give Ricky himself an extra shot of confidence - especially the next time he's in a "should I go for it?" situation.

Current Top 150 PGA Tour Money Leaders - Sports Network

Thanx-A-Lot, Frank-0-Sport

[Chas]

Nah. Even if he dunks it he could still make par, bogey at worst, and he'd have to miss every cut for the rest of the year to fail to get his PGA Tour card for 2011 (and likely not even that - a T2 would have given him more than $625k). And again, that's dunking it from 210 yards (4-iron) to a large, large target, failing to get up and down to save par, etc.

On reflection, have to admit that this is a pretty strong argument (same for Shanks..). Must have been projecting about my own play from 210

.. OK so he played conservatively this time to assure a high spot - doesn't make him a wimp. Good points by Chilli. Smart career management more like ..... IMO too much second-guessing is a mistake, but it's fun to do. When Phil hits SW four (4) times from the exact same spot on the fairway (par 5), now THAT's the time to second guess ...... [sorry Phil]

[Acropo]

Riiiiiiiiiiight. Dude, he was flipping people the bird, plain and simple. I should know - I'm the foremost authority on Ian Poulter's bird-flipping fetish.

Thanks for the tip! I shall endeavour to be very careful how I adjust my glasses when I'm next in the States! (PS - having seen Fowler now I have to agree he looks promising. But is he Tin Cup's Kevin Cosner or Don Johnson? Do we know whether he likes kids and animals or not?) You may well be right, tho looking at the shot I think he was maybe 'avvin a larf... Whatever, all will be forgiven when he wins his next event. So long as it's strokeplay and he's wearing purple.

[Shanks A Million]

Riiiiiiiiiiight. Dude, he was flipping people the bird, plain and simple. I should know - I'm the foremost authority on Ian Poulter's bird-flipping fetish.

You are aware that the middle finger has no meaning in England, right? Poulter would probably know as much about the middle finger as you know about the "two finger salute" that is used in England. I really doubt that he's doing it intentionally.

(PS - having seen Fowler now I have to agree he looks promising. But is he Tin Cup's Kevin Cosner or Don Johnson? Do we know whether he likes kids and animals or not?)

Johnson; he laid up. But in all honesty, as long as he's not Romeo, because

I'm Romeo.