rolling wrists to square up clubface...

[senorchipotle]

thanks erik. thing is, the face is open at impact, so i've been trying to set up my swing in a manner that will fade the ball back to the target. otherwise i'll hit it 10 yards right of where i'm aiming.

[iacas]

thanks erik. thing is, the face is open at impact

No, it isn't.

I marked your three shots. This last one (you can see the ball) is the one that started farthest right. It's still well left.

[RC]

There have been a number of posts about that take-away problem where the club lines up pointing right of your target when it is level at waist high. Invariably that leads to the over the top move you have when hitting the ball. Erik is very observant to point out that your hands move outward from your body at the start. Your practice swings look better than your actual swing because you are trying so hard to hit out and draw the ball so you wind up steering your swing through the ball, not free-wheeling it. And that is what happens when you get into the laid-off waist high position. Laid-off is not as good a description as "pushed out" because that is what you hands have done. At address, your hands are inside and under the plane of the club. At waist high you have already allowed the club to get inside and under that same plane. Try moving the grip inside maintaining the same angle as at address, and then hit balls using Erik's drill.

I would like to see a picture in your take away position in the above picture where the club face is on your spine angle, not fanned so open, and where the hands are inside the club head.

Your swing is not that hard to fix, but it is a matter of committing to a method that gets away from that thought of aiming left cause you know it will drift right, or you will pull it and be way off. It is a matter of confidence. Force yourself to hit push draws. Do it until the cows come home and don't accept an over the top pull. You will get there because you are athletic and swing with good tempo. If you have to, play with a 3/4 swing for a while and groove that little draw. Good luck and keep after it -- it will work.

[DocParty]

Originally Posted by senorchipotle

so apparently this is what i have to do to hit a golf shot that isn't a fade. this is really pissing me off. I'm happy with pretty much everything in my swing right now except impact, which is what counts. I've got good tempo, my swing is in to out, my head stays behind the ball, I'm swinging through the ball, my club is on plane, but I'm still managing to cut across the ball somehow. don't get me wrong, I've got good flight and trajectory, but no matter what i do i hit a fade. i went to the range today, and all my shots are doing this. I'm trying my best to have passive wrists and let my club come through and square up naturally without having to actively square the face, but something isn't working. this has been happening for a while and I'm well over it.

any ideas, tips, anything? all help is very much appreciate.

It's simple, here is what I do and it works 90% of the time. The other 10% is when I break one of the following:

Line your ball up so as to hit it @ 150/200 yards down the right hand side of the fairway (if you are right handed). Basically locate that point and set your stance up aiming at that point.

Turn your club head to point at the pin/target, not the point on the edge of the fairway.

Drop your right foot back @ 6 inches.

Make your grip, strong. This means your left hand is in its normal position but the right hand has the thumb at 2 pm on a clock dial instead of 12 pm as in a neutral grip.

Take a slow, smooth, methodical back swing no further back than to a point where your club is parallel to the ground.

Make a smooth down swing to the ball all the time never losing sight of the ball and not moving your head and keeping your left arm straight NO MATTER WHAT.

Skim the surface of the grass (if you are hitting off the grass). If hitting from a tee, be certain that no more than 50% of the ball is above the leading face of your wood.

Hit the ball and follow through. This is a MUST! When you are through with your swing, your belt buckle must be pointing at the pin/target and your back foot's sole is pointing 180 degrees

away from the pin/target.

After a few strikes like this you'll get some good results.

If you hit too much of a draw, possibly a hook, first be certain EVERYTHING ABOVE HAS BEEN DONE CORRECTLY. If it has been done correctly, you can drop your right foot back 4 inches instead of 6 inches, this will take some of the Hook out and leave some of the Draw in the shot.

It's not hard but if you go cranking at it like you are going to hit it to the moon, all will fail.

TRUST THE CLUB TO DO THE WORK. All you do is swing the club. The club does everything else. This is a real difficult thing for golfers to do, TRUST THE CLUB.

In trusting the club you have to also understand that every golfer hits each club a different distance. So, just because your buds are hitting a 5 iron doesn't mean you have to. If you need a 4 iron or a 4 hybrid or 3 hybrid, then use it. There is no shame in hitting a different club that the others. But there is shame in not being smart enough to use your clubs wisely and to your advantage.

Hope this helps

Doc

[DocParty]

Originally Posted by senorchipotle

so apparently this is what i have to do to hit a golf shot that isn't a fade. this is really pissing me off. i'm happy with pretty much everything in my swing right now except impact, which is what counts. i've got good tempo, my swing is in to out, my head stays behind the ball, i'm swinging through the ball, my club is on plane, but i'm still managing to cut across the ball somehow. don't get me wrong, i've got good flight and trajectory, but no matter what i do i hit a fade. i went to the range today, and all my shots are doing this. i'm trying my best to have passive wrists and let my club come through and square up naturally without having to actively square the face, but something isn't working. this has been happening for a while and i'm well over it.

any ideas, tips, anything? all help is very much appreciate.

I forgot to add, never look up to see your shot until your swing is complete 100%. You'll find it, don't worry. Your eyes and brain will make certain of that if you swing properly.

Doc

[DocParty]

Originally Posted by DocParty

It's simple, here is what I do and it works 90% of the time. The other 10% is when I break one of the following:

Line your ball up so as to hit it @ 150/200 yards down the right hand side of the fairway (if you are right handed). Basically locate that point and set your stance up aiming at that point.

Turn your club head to point at the pin/target, not the point on the edge of the fairway.

Drop your right foot back @ 6 inches.

Make your grip, strong. This means your left hand is in its normal position but the right hand has the thumb at 2 pm on a clock dial instead of 12 pm as in a neutral grip.

Take a slow, smooth, methodical back swing no further back than to a point where your left arm is parallel to the ground. Like a batter so to say.

Make a smooth down swing to the ball all the time never losing sight of the ball and not moving your head and keeping your left arm straight NO MATTER WHAT.

Skim the surface of the grass (if you are hitting off the grass). If hitting from a tee, be certain that no more than 50% of the ball is above the leading face of your wood.

Hit the ball and follow through. This is a MUST! When you are through with your swing, your belt buckle must be pointing at the pin/target and your back foot's sole is pointing 180 degrees

away from the pin/target.

After a few strikes like this you'll get some good results.

If you hit too much of a draw, possibly a hook, first be certain EVERYTHING ABOVE HAS BEEN DONE CORRECTLY. If it has been done correctly, you can drop your right foot back 4 inches instead of 6 inches, this will take some of the Hook out and leave some of the Draw in the shot.

It's not hard but if you go cranking at it like you are going to hit it to the moon, all will fail.

TRUST THE CLUB TO DO THE WORK. All you do is swing the club. The club does everything else. This is a real difficult thing for golfers to do, TRUST THE CLUB.

In trusting the club you have to also understand that every golfer hits each club a different distance. So, just because your buds are hitting a 5 iron doesn't mean you have to. If you need a 4 iron or a 4 hybrid or 3 hybrid, then use it. There is no shame in hitting a different club that the others. But there is shame in not being smart enough to use your clubs wisely and to your advantage.

Hope this helps

Doc

Made one correction.

[carpediem4300]

Originally Posted by DocParty

I forgot to add, never look up to see your shot until your swing is complete 100%. You'll find it, don't worry. Your eyes and brain will make certain of that if you swing properly.

Doc

Im sorry but thats the worst advice ever, the old "keep the head down to finish" is rubbish and misleading,..

granted you shouldnt lift out of the shot and change your spine angle prior to impact,....but trying to keep your head down till finish????? man thats gunna be a world of hurt and really crappy off target weak shots,....

watch the swing vision video of any pro and they are up and looking for the ball just before 3/4 follow through.

[saevel25]

Quote:

I forgot to add, never look up to see your shot until your swing is complete 100%. You'll find it, don't worry. Your eyes and brain will make certain of that if you swing properly.

Not required, not even Hogan said he could see the club hit the ball. Two of the best modern ball strikers in there prime, Annika and David Duval both turned there head towards the target into impact.

Also, what you describe is hitting a pull draw to pull hook, it does nothing to promote a good swing path. You tell him to aim his body to the right, his clubface to the target, that is old advice that is proven wrong.

If you want to hit a draw, weight forward, proper spine tilt, and hands forward of the club at impact. If this doesn't help, then you need to drop your right arm down in the downswing a bit faster to get more to the inside.

what will help is getting the proper take away. Its really easy to come over the top when your clubhead is behind the ball, because it will reroute to a higher plane, also because you want to hit the ball, instead of swinging the club. This promotes really throwing hands at the ball.

For weight forward, i would practice with a bit more knee flexion in the front leg. Also practice the impact position more, that flying wedge drill is good. I do a similar one with a towel under my left arm. I will set up with my hips forward, spine tilted, i will take the club back to about 3/4 on proper plane. Then i will just strike through the ball, and you can seriously hit a draw.

Flat left wrist is the toughest in my opinion, because it goes against what Amateurs all want to do, hit the ball far. They fell like they must throw the club at the ball to do this. Really they need to get there mind off this concept and just feel like the ball is in the way. This is why most people can hit good practice swings, there is no ball, you put a ball down it becomes the object of much hatred :p. I like throwing down a chalk line and working on getting that divot to start a few inches infront of the ball. I also like the flying wedge drill, it promotes the correct impact position. I also like hitting golf balls way forward in my stance, like mid iron shots near the front foot, really try to get that divot forward. No way to do this but get those hands really ahead and not break the wrist down.

[AmazingWhacker]

FWIW - I have been struggling to sqaure the clubface and my instructor also advised me to try and roll my wrists over through impact.  I just can't do it, though . .I hit the ball left, right and everywhere inbetween.

I have been trying various things to get my wrists to do that naturally and the biggest thing I have found so far was my weight transfer to the front side was happening too late.  When I don't transfer my weight to the front side all the way, then my left wrist has to break earlier than it should because my arms get ahead of my body.  To learn this I started to deliberately take the club back and pause - transfer all my weight to my front side and then swing normally.  After a while I could put it all together in one motion that feels, depending on the day, like I'm stepping down hard with my front foot or, if the foot idea is not working, bumping my left hip forward to begin the downswing.

Striking is much improved in the last month.  Of course - the danger of internet tips is that this (probably) applies to me . .but may not apply to you.

Oh - and Erik's comment about not being able to get into the right impact position when you take the club back inside is right on the money - that is something I struggled with and had to fix all the way before I could make any real improvement.

[DocParty]

Originally Posted by carpediem4300

Im sorry but thats the worst advice ever, the old "keep the head down to finish" is rubbish and misleading,..

granted you shouldnt lift out of the shot and change your spine angle prior to impact,....but trying to keep your head down till finish????? man thats gunna be a world of hurt and really crappy off target weak shots,....

watch the swing vision video of any pro and they are up and looking for the ball just before 3/4 follow through.

Through the swing is through the ball strike. I may have not made that clear but it is taught by every pro out there. I may have just not stated it correctly.

Doc

[dickguamboy]

I may have a low handicap, but this doesn't mean that I cannot improve.  I found a way to not only hit the ball a little further, but to also hit it straight or with a baby draw.  I'm a happy camper now and my future games will be much better and satisfying.  I hate frustration while playing a round.

My simple advice to you or any golfer having the same problem is to find your impact point without having to square the club face by rolling your wrist.  I duly hate having to improvise to acquire a perfect hit.  Here's what I found out:  My shots were straight to the target but tails out to the right (just like you).  Go to the driving range and take a few swing.  As you pull the club down towards the ball (in slow motion) watch the face of the club at impact point.  If the face seems to be slightly opened (not square), then move the ball a couple of inch to the left.  You will then notice that the club squares as your body rotates toward the target line.

Give this a try and let me know the results.  This method is better than having to rotate your wrist.  Friends of mine have tried it and now scoring or hitting better.  It takes the mechanical aspect and frustration out of the swing.

Good luck....

rrb

[flopster]

It's simple, here is what I do and it works 90% of the time. The other 10% is when I break one of the following:

Line your ball up so as to hit it @ 150/200 yards down the right hand side of the fairway (if you are right handed). Basically locate that point and set your stance up aiming at that point.

Turn your club head to point at the pin/target, not the point on the edge of the fairway.

Drop your right foot back @ 6 inches.

Make your grip, strong. This means your left hand is in its normal position but the right hand has the thumb at 2 pm on a clock dial instead of 12 pm as in a neutral grip.

Take a slow, smooth, methodical back swing no further back than to a point where your club is parallel to the ground.

Make a smooth down swing to the ball all the time never losing sight of the ball and not moving your head and keeping your left arm straight NO MATTER WHAT.

Skim the surface of the grass (if you are hitting off the grass). If hitting from a tee, be certain that no more than 50% of the ball is above the leading face of your wood.

Hit the ball and follow through. This is a MUST! When you are through with your swing, your belt buckle must be pointing at the pin/target and your back foot's sole is pointing 180 degrees

away from the pin/target.

After a few strikes like this you'll get some good results.

If you hit too much of a draw, possibly a hook, first be certain EVERYTHING ABOVE HAS BEEN DONE CORRECTLY. If it has been done correctly, you can drop your right foot back 4 inches instead of 6 inches, this will take some of the Hook out and leave some of the Draw in the shot.

It's not hard but if you go cranking at it like you are going to hit it to the moon, all will fail.

TRUST THE CLUB TO DO THE WORK. All you do is swing the club. The club does everything else. This is a real difficult thing for golfers to do, TRUST THE CLUB.

In trusting the club you have to also understand that every golfer hits each club a different distance. So, just because your buds are hitting a 5 iron doesn't mean you have to. If you need a 4 iron or a 4 hybrid or 3 hybrid, then use it. There is no shame in hitting a different club that the others. But there is shame in not being smart enough to use your clubs wisely and to your advantage.

Hope this helps

Doc

Do not do this^^^^ it's just manipulating yourself around to something worse. You look as though your flipping the club at the ball at impact, play the ball further back in your stance.

[AmazingWhacker]

FWIW - I have been struggling to sqaure the clubface and my instructor also advised me to try and roll my wrists over through impact.  I just can't do it, though . .I hit the ball left, right and everywhere inbetween.

I have been trying various things to get my wrists to do that naturally and the biggest thing I have found so far was my weight transfer to the front side was happening too late.  When I don't transfer my weight to the front side all the way, then my left wrist has to break earlier than it should because my arms get ahead of my body.  To learn this I started to deliberately take the club back and pause - transfer all my weight to my front side and then swing normally.  After a while I could put it all together in one motion that feels, depending on the day, like I'm stepping down hard with my front foot or, if the foot idea is not working, bumping my left hip forward to begin the downswing.

Striking is much improved in the last month.  Of course - the danger of internet tips is that this (probably) applies to me . .but may not apply to you.

Oh - and Erik's comment about not being able to get into the right impact position when you take the club back inside is right on the money - that is something I struggled with and had to fix all the way before I could make any real improvement.

Wow - old thread revival!  Since I posted this in 12/2012 I've been working on squaring the clubface a lot.  Pretty much it's the main thing I worked on although I certainly didn't/don't practice every day or week.  I have no idea what I was talking about with weight transfer, lol.  After I made that post . .I kept working at rolling my wrists through impact and struggling.  I took a couple more lessons and worked on the exact same thing and struggled some more.  Then, sort of suddenly, I started to be able to hit some better shots rolling my wrists.  Pretty soon after that the motion stopped being 100% conscious.  I actually don't even do it, anymore.  What ended up happening is that my backswing rotation got tighter and the club stays more in front of me towards the hitting zone.  I guess forcing the wrist roll allowed me to understand what the club face is supposed to do at impact so I could then start to do it more naturally.  I went to the range yesterday and, for the first time since probably early 2012, I felt like squaring the clubface was not the main thing I needed to work on.