If Tiger switched to Stack & Tilt...

[laxbballgolf]

Yeah, yeah...I should have worded the first post more carefully. My opinion is that Mike and Andy would be extremely successful with Tiger because they are such great swing coaches. They would be able to tell Tiger exactly what is causing his misses in a simple and clear way. I think Tiger is the most talented player on earth, and I think Mike and Andy are the best swing coaches. I think Tiger's talent with Mike and Andy's video work and analysis would be a deadly combination.

Sure, this thread may be doomed to ignorant comments from people who don't understand Stack & Tilt, but I don't think it's pointless. It would be HUGE if Tiger started working with Mike and Andy. What's wrong with thinking about that "what if" scenario??

[Titleist_ProV1x]

With all the talk about Tiger possibly firing Haney, imagine if he started working with Andy and Mike.

I seriously doubt that Tiger hasn't tried mastered and perfected the S&T; swing in a day, along with every other swing known and unknown in the professional golfers realm

His personal life has caught up with him and like it or not, it is taking it's toll, learn from it and don't make the same mistake

[Deryck Griffith]

Tiger played his Wednesday practice round at the PLAYERS with Sean O'Hair and Hunter Mahan.

In another post, I mentioned that Tiger should leave Haney for Sean Foley. Sean Foley would help Tiger Tremendously! He uses S&T principles but really focuses mostly on a deep hand position vs Haney's laid off Garbage...

[Cussin hacker]

S&T are you kidding. Going back to his 2000 swing would be much better. He's been all over the map since he went to Mr. Haney.

[Phil McGleno]

S&T are you kidding. Going back to his 2000 swing would be much better. He's been all over the map since he went to Mr. Haney.

His 2000 swing was closer to S&T than whatever he's doing now. His hands were more in. Pat Perez told him to do that yesterday during his practice round and he said he's gonna do it... Haney's "out and up and laid off" method is on its way out.

And it's been said before, "Cussin," that any PGA Tour player's swing is at least 80% Stack and Tilt. Tiger's no exception.

[Kieran123]

His 2000 swing was closer to S&T than whatever he's doing now. His hands were more in. Pat Perez told him to do that yesterday during his practice round and he said he's gonna do it... Haney's "out and up and laid off" method is on its way out.

Is this the real Butch Harmon?

I haven't even looked into S&T....I; probably should

[Tiger Spuds]

And it's been said before, "Cussin," that any PGA Tour player's swing is at least 80% Stack and Tilt. Tiger's no exception.

Isn't that the same as saying that Stack and Tilt is 80% Traditional golf swing?Or are you saying every Tour player specifically studied S&T to get their swings to where they are now?

[Cussin hacker]

His 2000 swing was closer to S&T than whatever he's doing now. His hands were more in. Pat Perez told him to do that yesterday during his practice round and he said he's gonna do it... Haney's "out and up and laid off" method is on its way out.

Whatever was working in 2000. S&T or whatever is were he needs to go. He was unstoppable then and why he changed I'll never know. He's won a lot after 2000, but that was talent in spite of his flawed swing. Whatever he decides to do now he needs to get mentally fit first.

[Leftygolfer]

Isn't that the same as saying that Stack and Tilt is 80% Traditional golf swing?Or are you saying every Tour player specifically studied S&T to get their swings to where they are now?

Umm.. No. They learned how to play golf well like everyone else, through trial and error. Through this they adopted ideas and thoughts that are articulated in the book, DVD, through instruction. What the average traditional teaching pro teaches dirrectly contradicts what great players actually do. One example, the right knee and retaining the flex. I am yet to see a pro who doesn't decrease the flex in that knee in the backswing yet that idea is taught over and over and over....

[Tiger Spuds]

Umm.. No. They learned how to play golf well like everyone else, through trial and error. Through this they adopted ideas and thoughts that are articulated in the book, DVD, through instruction. What the average traditional teaching pro teaches dirrectly contradicts what great players actually do. One example, the right knee and retaining the flex. I am yet to see a pro who doesn't decrease the flex in that knee in the backswing yet that idea is taught over and over and over....

Think you missed the point of my question dude.

[Leftygolfer]

Think you missed the point of my question dude.

I don't think so.

[Zeph]

Isn't that the same as saying that Stack and Tilt is 80% Traditional golf swing?Or are you saying every Tour player specifically studied S&T to get their swings to where they are now?

He is saying that S&T is based on swings of the best players, which happens to be the Tour players. They looked at what all the players had in common, found the best and easiest way to achieve it, and put it together. So yes, S&T is probably 70-80% of a traditional golf swing. The changes made are done to make it easier playing golf.

In short, S&T is based on a forward swing bottom, shaft forward at impact and having power to play the courses. That is virtually what most PGA players do today. The problem is that most teachers are not able to explain what we want to happen, and more importantly, how we should get there. They also teach an inefficient and unnecessarily difficult way of doing it. S&T has studied the geometry of the swing, and based on that, made a swing which, when done correctly, will give you all the components that link the best players together, those that I mentioned above. How you get that, is where S&T comes in, and they do a very good job in showing exactly what cause various results. A lot of it is based on The Golfing Machine, the bible for the golf swing. But that book is mostly for instructors, because it comprehends every single possible way to effectively swing the golf club. Also note that S&T is meant to be easy, so they have tried getting rid of unnecessary moves in the swing. Some of those moves, many claim give you more distance. There might be a tiny difference, but compared to the risk you take, it is not worth it. I just saw a Youtube video today of a S&T swing hitting a 6 iron 230 yards, so distance is obviously not a problem. Remember that one of the key points in S&T is to have to power to play the courses today. The most significant part of S&T that Tiger lacks is the hands path. His hands move out in front of him, so he will have to drop the hands down, lay the club off and whip it through. Many players do it well, like Fred Couples, but it is an inefficient way to play golf. Take the weight shift. Most instructors tell you to move the body back over the right leg on the backswing, then move it back forward on the downswing. S&T tells you to keep the centers stacked, and only tilt and rotate back. The weight does still shift back, but less than the traditional swing. More importantly, you don't lose the setup positions you've made. With the traditional swing, the whole body has to shift forward on the downswing. You have to make sure the upper body only moves back to where it initially started, and the lower body to move as far as it can. What happens is that amateur golfers do one of two things. 1: Never get their body and weight forward again. 2: Get the upper body too far forward. S&T tells you to keep the upper body centered, and on the downswing, only push the lower body forward. With the traditional swing, you could say you take one step back and two steps forward with the lower body, and one step back and one step forward with the upper body. S&T take only one step forward with the lower body. Which sounds easiest and most efficient? An important thing about S&T is that they want to make it easier for beginners to play well. Fred Couples may be able to loop the club, but very few, if any beginners would be able to do it. S&T is the easiest way I've ever seen someone swing a golf club, without missing any vital part of the game. There are a lot of misconceptions about S&T, so I suggest those that don't know what S&T is to stop arguing against it and go read up on what it really is. Not from googling stack and tilt, but from looking at the threads on the subject in this forum. That is all...

[Tiger Spuds]

That's more like it

[mchepp]

Tiger played his Wednesday practice round at the PLAYERS with Sean O'Hair and Hunter Mahan.

I think if Tiger does indeed switch to Foley we may be in store for world domination again. Even with him performing Haney's swing that is not well matched for his explosive speed he can still finish in the top 10. Now add a swing better matched to him, he will be tough to beat again.

[sean_miller]

Since the "Tiger Slam" predates S&T and S&T is somewhat based on the fundamentals common to classic swings . . . do you see where I'm going with this?

He should get a different driver and swing like he did in 2000, if his body will let him.

[jamo]

Tiger played his Wednesday practice round at the PLAYERS with Sean O'Hair and Hunter Mahan.

I just read a rumor that said Tiger is switching to Foley. You knew this all along (well, yesterday) didn't you?

[Tiger Spuds]

I just read a rumor that said Tiger is switching to Foley. You knew this all along (well, yesterday) didn't you?

Yeah, heard this too.On Stephanie Wei's blog, and she's usually on the ball.Haney's already gone apparently.

http://www.weiunderpar.com/post/5753...y-out-foley-in An interesting sidenote.. Sean Foley on teaching a Draw : How do you get a player who has been hitting a power fade to hit a draw? The problem with draws sometimes is that guys hang back and they wipe it and it curves too much. So we always talk about compression and really hitting it solid. We hit what we call a hands-ahead draw: basically the hands are ahead at impact, which means that the clubface is open and, because the clubface is open, the ball is going to start right. If the face is open 3 degrees at impact, it's going to have an inside-to-out path and draw every time. It's simple math. So we draw with the path and arc, not with the hands. One instructor that knows what he's talking about, at least.

[laxbballgolf]

He is saying that S&T is based on swings of the best players, which happens to be the Tour players. They looked at what all the players had in common, found the best and easiest way to achieve it, and put it together. So yes, S&T is probably 70-80% of a traditional golf swing. The changes made are done to make it easier playing golf.

Thank you, great post!

And I agree that Tiger is 80-90% of the way using "Stack & Tilt" already. If he were to work with Mike and Andy, though, (however unlikely that may be) I hope that they would not try to force him to 100% hold the exact Stack and Tilt positions (for instance, don't get on him if he has a slight head movement that isn't a part of the Stack and Tilt description), and instead keep an ongoing eye on the most important things: swing path, hand positions, power moves, etc. Whatever though, as long as Foley or someone gets Tiger's hands deeper so that he hits the ball from the inside again, I'll be happy. As long as we don't have to watch the world's best player cut across the ball hitting fades all day long anymore...