Top High Handicapper Mistake

[The Recreational Golfer]

Sorry, still not buying it. A guy who played well wrote a book, that's not any proof.

There's a difference between having skills and knowing how to play the game. They're both important. If you're playing with a guy who doesn't have a good swing, doesn't have any touch around the green or on it, improving their skills in these areas will clearly lead to lower scores. Floyd's point is that regardless of your skills, playing mistakes like the ones on his list (for mid-high handicappers) cause you to leak strokes that you shouldn't have to. For those of you around scratch, he has a different list that gets to the same point: whatever skills you bring to the course TODAY, you won't get the most out of them if you don't play the game correctly.

In my own case, I have the physical skills to be single-digit, but I'm held back because of: 1. Not being patient. 2. Not trusting my skills completely. 3. Being tentative around the green (see #2). 4. Failing to notice all the conditions before choosing a shot and selecting a club. 5. etc. I think everyone could build their own list of playing mistakes. Yes, if all our skills were flawless, we'd all be on the tour. But we only have so much time and so much talent to get skills. Only by learning how to play the game, though, we can get the most out of the skills we have or can hope to develop. BTW, I checked "poor setup" on the poll list. So many golfers I play with are doomed before they even move the club. That one easy thing, takes about a half-hour (including coffee break) to get right, would take more strokes off a handicap than any other thing.

[sean_miller]

There's a difference between having skills and knowing how to play the game. They're both important. If you're playing with a guy who doesn't have a good swing, doesn't have any touch around the green or on it, improving their skills in these areas will clearly lead to lower scores. Floyd's point is that regardless of your skills, playing mistakes like the ones on his list (for mid-high handicappers) cause you to leak strokes that you shouldn't have to. For those of you around scratch, he has a different list that gets to the same point: whatever skills you bring to the course TODAY, you won't get the most out of them if you don't play the game correctly.

I added some items earlier in the thread, and I'd like to add to it.

- Physical fitness. What task can the average person do for 4-6 hours without a break? Walking? Running? Watching TV? Playing golf? - Poor hand-eye coordination. People who are naturally good at stick and ball sports, don't realize how difficult it is for some people to be aware of where the striking surface is in space relative to the ball (moving or stationary). Some people just can't ever do it properly and others do it naturally. - Lack of knowledge regarding how the club and ball interact and even what clubs to buy and use. Some people who played sports and games as a kid pick up the basics of how to learn a physical skill. The way to manipulate a hockey stick to get a strong shot, or to plant and turn through a soccer ball, is a bit different than hitting a golf ball, but at least one thing is the same. Kids soon realize they probably can't do it very well on day one. They learn the basic technique, practice it, and refine it. They learn how to learn. It also helps to have the right stick or ball for their strength and size. - Too impatient. Ask a lifelong high handicapper what they've done in the past 5 years to improve and buying new equipment and then hitting range balls will likely be the number one answer. Ask them what they plan to do in the next 5 years and the answer will be much the same. As the old saying goes, they don't plan to fail, they fail to plan.

[iacas]

There's a difference between having skills and knowing how to play the game. They're both important.

Here's the thing: almost nobody is a bogey golfer or worse because of "course management." They're all high handicappers because they hit the ball badly. They hit it fat, thin, slice it 40 yards, etc.

I've yet to see a guy who hits the ball well who can't break 90 because of course management. I don't think I ever will, and I don't think that person even exists. If I had to choose a guy who can't break 90 and say what percentage of "bad short game," "crappy ballstriking," and "poor course management" contributed to their suckiness, it's at least 80% "crappy ballstriking." This is not about "what skills you bring to the course today," it's about "what skills you have every day." The single easiest way to lower your handicap is to hit the ball better.

In my own case, I have the physical skills to be single-digit, but I'm held back because of:

I'd wager a good bit that you're held back because you don't strike the ball as well as you should to be a 7 or an 8.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the universal truth that corresponds most directly to the widest range of handicappers is "where's your low point?" Mine's a few inches in front of the golf ball. Odds say (and I mean like 99% odds) yours is behind the golf ball.

BTW, I checked "poor setup" on the poll list. So many golfers I play with are doomed before they even move the club. That one easy thing, takes about a half-hour (including coffee break) to get right, would take more strokes off a handicap than any other thing.

With all due respect, nah, not even close to true. I can break 90 (and 80) hitting every shot with my right foot on its tippy toes, or several other things you could have me do.

[golfro]

Agreed with Shanks and Iacas on this.

Course management is important, but what good is course management if you can't consistently hit the shot you need to hit.

Fact of the matter is, it comes down to ball striking. Course management and smart play comes AFTER having good ball striking abilities. What good is it to play safe and lay up or tee off with a 3 wood if you can't hit it consistently? On any given shot, so many things can go wrong if you don't have a proper swing. Doesn't matter how safe you play it if you can't strike the ball well.

Likewise, having great ball striking abilities opens up so many windows as far as what shots you can make and what you can't make. Its a world of difference to be able to take aggressive approach shots, if you can do it. You have to confidently play aggressive (in a smart manner) to make shots that put you in birdie or eagle opportunities.

Having taught some high handicap friends on some of the basics, I will say the number one thing I see almost ALWAYS is wrist flipping. For most golfers, wrist flipping actually seems more natural to most. After all, you need to get the club squared and under the ball right? Whats the easiest way to do that? Turn your wrist over and flip under the ball. That is what most high handicappers do, because its naturally what seems to be the easiest thing to do. Also, most of the high handicappers I talk to actually think that a proper divot is one that starts 1 inch behind the ball....

Second... once a mid-high handicapper has a sound, proper swing in mind, I find that one huge reason they don't further improve is...THEY DON'T PRACTICE. Practice makes perfect and it certainly rings true to golf. Ball striking deosn't just happen because you learn how to swing a club. Consistent great ball striking happens when you practice practice practice. Engrain muscle memory so you're comfortable doing it over and over on a consistent level. Mid-High amateurs RARELY practice enough at the range. It's evident by the thread poll awhile ago where most people said they only hit the range when they're looking to try something new or fix their swing. Whats the use in making a swing change if you don't practice enough to get your muscles comfortable enough to make consistent movements?

[StricklandPropane]

I'd love for the "course management" crowd to be my caddy for a day and "decision-make" my score from 110 to 85.

I rarely pull driver. I don't go for pins. If the hole is 315 I play a 5i to leave a full PW, etc....and if I get within 20-30 yds of the green, I put it on and 2 putt 90% of the time. The problem is the handful of LB's, shanks, tops with woods, or skull shots with short irons.

I can't speak for the rest of the world, but course management and short game is at best going to get me to 100.

[JWL1957]

The golfers most of you are refering to are mostly extreme newbies. Yeah... I might also point a newbie towards a basic lesson or two myself. The average 18 handicap player is pretty close to the national average. You cannot be a 18 handicap without grooving some sort of swing... whether it is good swing or bad. On course decision making is every bit as important to being a better golfer as 90% of these forum swing lessons going on.

[iacas]

The golfers most of you are refering to are mostly extreme newbies. Yeah... I might also point a newbie towards a basic lesson or two myself. The average 18 handicap player is pretty close to the national average. You cannot be a 18 handicap without grooving some sort of swing... whether it is good swing or bad. On course decision making is every bit as important to being a better golfer as 90% of these forum swing lessons going on.

Again, no, completely disagree. The average 18 handicapper has bad ballstriking and would see the largest gains if they worked on that part of their game. As I said, "If I had to choose a guy who can't break 90 (i.e. an 18 handicapper) and say what percentage of "bad short game," "crappy ballstriking," and "poor course management" contributed to their suckiness, it's at least 80% "crappy ballstriking."

I'll add to that: about 18% of the remaining 20% is "bad short game." It's not poor course management to hit the ball fat and thin and shank it and slice it 40 yards. That's ballstriking. Your last sentence couldn't be more wrong. You've said the same thing a few times so we'll have to agree to disagree, but disagree I do, and strongly. P.S. "Good course management" might save an 18-handicapper a shot or two a round. Improving their swing will let them save eight or nine. And often the changes aren't that dramatic. We've taken 18 handicappers and turned them into 11s in two weeks. And one of the guys who attended our first school this year is now a 7. He's 68.

[jamo]

The average 18 handicap player is pretty close to the national average. You cannot be a 18 handicap without grooving some sort of swing... whether it is good swing or bad.

A grooved (or non-grooved) bad swing is still a bad swing. A non-grooved good swing is also a bad swing. How many people in the world do you think have grooved good swings? Probably about the same amount of people in the world that carry low handicaps.

[Zeph]

No, we are not referring to newbies. The difference in ballstriking abilities from a handicap 18 to 8 is huge. There is an undeniable pattern with the handicap, low point and consistency in shot cone.

It doesn't matter if a player hits a 5 iron or 7 iron from 150 yards if the ball never reach 50 yards, and that is not the fault of a poor setup or picking the wrong club, it's about not having the swing to pull it off.

I'm fairly a agressive player, which I have been ever since I started playing golf. I still make the same decisions, be it good or bad, but my handicap has dropped to 13 because I'm hitting the ball better. I'm not hitting it a whole lot farther, perhaps slightly. My shot cone is more controlled and I am more able to hit the ball where I intended to.

[golfro]

I will say flat out... most mid-high handicappers tend to chunk the ball quite often. They most often consider that a good shot. I've had friends tee off with an iron PERFECTLY with the divot starting an inch past the ball and they'll say "shit I hit it thin" then the ball goes 10 yards further with a much mroe penetrating flight than when they hit their ball 1 inch behind the ball.

Fact of the matter is, good decision making can possibly get you out of trouble and shave a couple strokes down. Great ball striking on the other hands helps you avoid getting in trouble in the first place.

[sean_miller]

If ball striking is up to 90% of the problem for high handicappers, that isn't going to cure itself over night. Playing smarter off the tee and from the fairway/rough/hazard can reduce strokes during an actual round.

If playing smarter off the tee keeps me from going OB or losing a ball 3 times, when using a driver, when that same contact would probably have been in play with an iron, that is course management. Would a perfect strike have kept the ball in play? Of course it would have, but from one hole to the next, a perfect swing isn't just going to happen through osmosis.

Is a lob from just off the green that hits the flagstick and drops 2 feet away better than the same shot attempt bladed over the green into a hazard? No kidding. Either way, a better play next time would be try and lag a putt to within 4 feet.

[bplewis24]

I'm surprised the first option didn't get more votes. I don't know what "casting" is, but I would guess that 90% of high (and even mid?) handicappers are flippers.

Brandon

[golfro]

yeah consider me surprised that overswinging got so many votes. A lot of high handicappers I see and play with don't swing enough. no shoulder turn, raise the club up with all arms then cast down and flip. typical amateur swing I see...

[JWL1957]

No, we are not referring to newbies. The difference in ballstriking abilities from a handicap 18 to 8 is huge. There is an undeniable pattern with the handicap, low point and consistency in shot cone.

You just proved my point. Your still trying the same shots with a better swing as you did with a worse swing. Must have been fun watching you with the bad one.......... or funny.

[golfro]

You just proved my point. Your still trying the same shots with a better swing as you did with a worse swing. Must have been fun watching you with the bad one.......... or funny.

How did that prove your point? same decision but with better swing = on green. same deicision with crappy swing = in hazzard. a different, SAFER decision with a crappy swing = either in hazzard or green.

so the best scenario is that you have to have a good swing to pull off ANY decision with any kind of consistency. Thats the point everyones trying to make here. You can think about every single scenario and decision when you're prepping to hit a shot... but whats the point if you can't trust your swing to be able to hit the shot you intended to hit? Like Zeph, I've always played aggressive. I drive where I shouldn't and almost any par 5, if I can find a way, I'll try to get there in 2. Instead of playing around a hazaard, in many cases I'll try to go over it or draw it or fade it around the hazzard. Thats just how I've played. My decisions still remain the same but now with much better ball striking abilities and better control of my shots, I can actually pull it off. I can get to the greens on long par 4's and 5's for eagle opps. I can hit it over a hazzard and save one stroke from chipping out. etc etc. Making decisions would have to come after the fact that you can trust your swing, whether hitting it save or aggressive...you have to be able to trust that exact shot and your intentions before you can make that decision.

[iacas]

You just proved my point. Your still trying the same shots with a better swing as you did with a worse swing.

Uh, no he didn't. He's dropped his handicap - and his scores - tremendously by improving his ballstriking. Not by doing something with his course management.

[TopMostOfEm]

Shanks,

I am a complete newbie: 2 lessons and hitting about 70 balls per day, 5 days per week trying to learn the previous week's lessons. This thread, and in particular, your posts are speaking to my life every morning nowadays.

I really appreciate the combination of your knowledge and writing ability. Please forgive me if my questions are answered elsewhere on this forum...I would like to read your answers to my questions if you would be so kind as to answer them for me.

1. Flipping? Does this refer to breaking my wrists near the bottom of my swing? My instructor has told me to maintain my wrist cock on the downswing. I'm assuming flipping is breaking before the ball?

2. Is flipping related to poor timing in an attempt to have a faster downswing than upswing, which all translates to trying to power up through the ball?

3. Is the ideal cure for flipping maintaining the wrist cock 2 or 4 or 6 inches past the ball?

At 2 weeks into this, today I started feeling like my posture was locking in, in much the same way as being at the position of attention in the Air Force became....something your body just locks into and you know by feel that it is right. However, and this is scary, I do ... Top Most Of Them... Only now I only top them somewhat as most go 100 yards, about 60 percent straight.

Please tell me, from what you wrote above about taking months or years to correct, what is a good plan of action to consistently move the low point forward while remaining on plane?

Thanks!

[jamo]

I'm not Shanks, but I think I can answer your questions:

1. Flipping? Does this refer to breaking my wrists near the bottom of my swing? My instructor has told me to maintain my wrist cock on the downswing. I'm assuming flipping is breaking before the ball?

Yup. Basically your left wrist cups, and the clubhead passes your hands (if you are looking at your swing from a face-on view). It increases loft, can open the clubface, and it is very hard to time so the general result is inconsistency.

2. Is flipping related to poor timing in an attempt to have a faster downswing than upswing, which all translates to trying to power up through the ball?

I would say so. It does feel like a powerful move, but in reality it is a power leak due to the increased loft and inconsistency.

3. Is the ideal cure for flipping maintaining the wrist cock 2 or 4 or 6 inches past the ball?

You want to maintain it as far as possible.