Top High Handicapper Mistake

[sean_miller]

Where is your swing?

SAM has the video - the one with the flipping.

[jamo]

See, you're really barking up the wrong tree here. First of all,

Shanks you're a whole hell of a lot more believable when you don't make stuff up. I would be willing to bet that there are 7 handicaps who don't flip and actually aren't scratch because of their short game or course management (or other swing ailments). You can have a 7 handicap with a good swing, this thread is about high handicaps.

[Arthur]

Don't know if someone else mentioned this or not. The biggest mistake I make are high expectations the day or night before then when I get on the course and slice, chilli dip, skull, go thin and fat by the time I get to the second hole to mad to enjoy the rest of the round. Oh playing for a big slice and hitting it straight really upset me.

Now I enjoy the round no matter the bad shots cause there will always be several good shots to offset them. Thanks Michael Bennett and Andy Plummer.

[ohiolefty]

this thread is just filled with flipping hackers

[Shanks A Million]

Shanks you're a whole hell of a lot more believable when you don't make stuff up. I would be willing to bet that there are 7 handicaps who don't flip and actually aren't scratch because of their short game or course management (or other swing ailments). You can have a 7 handicap with a good swing, this thread is about high handicaps.

I don't know, flipping after impact is still fairly common in the lower handicaps. Even iacas said he's likely flipping it:

(to Sean Miller)

I know I flip, albiet my club is leaning forward at impact, and my low point is several inches in front of the ball, my club still crosses my hands too soon. Interestingly, your latest swing (jamo), your first without the flip, was made as you turned in a 1.5 handicap. That should say something. The fact of the matter is, if I had to guess, my money's on Sean's flipping. If your club crosses your hands before your right hand is at its furthest point from the right shoulder, you're flipping.

You will find tour pros who swing on some awful plane, have a huge loop, come way over the top, move all over the place, have awful grips, terrible setups, godawful tempo, and a bad haircut, but you will never find a tour pro who flips the club. I'm with iacas and my own local pro on this issue, handicap is determined by the low point of the swing.

[iacas]

I'm with iacas and my own local pro on this issue, handicap is determined by the low point of the swing.

I never said it that way. I said there's a direct correlation, more than with any other measurable aspect in golf, between low point and handicap.

There's a difference. You're saying 100%, I'm saying "more than anything else" (but would peg the number at 95% or so - there are always a few people who chop down on the ball and hit massive slices or something but have good enough hand-eye coordination not to bottom out too far back of the ball).

[Shanks A Million]

I never said it that way. I said there's a direct correlation, more than with any other measurable aspect in golf, between low point and handicap.

Sorry, that was my semantic mistake. I meant to say "a direct correlation." In this sense, not like a so called "casual connection" to say, Leo's being prone to this or that, or the lines in the palm, but a very high percentage, more like the correlation between smoking and cancer, or being on the T.V. show "Jersey Shore" and having little to nothing to offer society.

I've seen one or two swing in which players didn't flip, but the arms ruled the swing, and the whole rest of the mechanical process was extremely unwieldy.

[jamo]

IThe fact of the matter is, if I had to guess, my money's on Sean's flipping. If your club crosses your hands before your right hand is at its furthest point from the right shoulder, you're flipping.

Mine is too (sorry, s_m), but I wouldn't just make stuff up to prove a point. If I can't find a way to directly prove my point I either look into it a little more, pose a relative question, or wait until I can gather more relevant proof.

[KaiL]

You will find tour pros who swing on some awful plane, have a huge loop, come way over the top, move all over the place, have awful grips, terrible setups, godawful tempo, and a bad haircut, but you will

Check this out:

http://www.aroundhawaii.com/lifestyl...se-styles.html

[Shanks A Million]

Check this out:

Interesting. Every impact position except one had the club leaning well forward, and that one was a guy who played just one PGA tour event, which he missed the cut in.

[sean_miller]

What are you talking about? YOU probably flip more than you think.

Clearly I'm using the wrong terminology to make my point. I guess the "flipping" I was referring to is when people try to flick every shot in the air - trying to help the ball in the air by hitting up on it with their irons. Do I flip past impact? Based on that detailed link someone just posted, I'm fairly certain I do - especially since there is no conscious effort made to not flip. I just hit the ball.

I wasn't trying to criticize people who hit a 1/2 decent shot more often than not. I was talking about people who don't understand letting the loft on the club get the ball in the air and more importantly, swinging a relatively heavy headed object with leading hands. To take liberties with analogies, imagine watching 2 people, each with a splitting axe, and hitting the target dead on. One person leads with his hands and generates enough power to split the log in one blow, while the second person leads with the axehead and barely gets the blade a couple inches into the log. It's not necessary for people to trash my swing, and my obvious flipping post impact, to disagree with me. People who can't learn to lead with their hands will always struggle at golf. That was my point.

link: flipper

[B-Con]

I have seen way too many players with swings far better than mine who cannot break 90 because of poor decision making. It's not a myth. I have one of the crappiest swings in the world and could easily get back to a 6 handicap if I got to play more. A sound swing is very important..... but it gets you squat if your not in the short grass most of the time.

I know this post was a few pages back, but I have a hard time believing this.

You're basically saying that they lose, on average, one stroke every single hole just to bad decisions. If you can swing well consistently you'll be playing from the short grass often. Half of bad decisions start with bad shots, if you hit good shots you won't have many opportunities for bad decisions. What are they doing, pulling a 9i at 180 yards? Hitting every water hazard they come across? How can you play a course more than twice and not learn those things? If you keep making those mistakes, you probably don't know your swing well enough to avoid them. I can't fathom having a great swing (which implies making consistent ball contact) and shooting my same scores. I can't see how to make that many bad decisions when you can reasonably control where the ball actually goes. I can see how a guy who consistently hits long shots could have a high handicap (I've played with one), but that's because he can hit the ball far but he doesn't know where it's going to land, let alone choose where. I can definitely see how a good player could post high scores due to poor decisions, but to maintain a high handicap you have to have at least half of your better games as high scores. Even if you constantly hit into water, under-club, and mis-read breaks, eventually you're going to remember where water is, you're going to realize you can't hit your 8i 170 yards, and you're going to lag a little better. You just have to learn, eventually. Most people don't play more than three courses consistently. By your fourth game on a course you should know the layout and approximate club lengths.

[Shanks A Million]

I know this post was a few pages back, but I have a hard time believing this.

Here's a better way to imagine it. Play the Tiger Woods PGA tour game, and see if anyone plays to a high handicap despite using a fairly reliable swing. By that logic, these players would perennially struggle on computer games because their decision making would not be good enough. But that's not the case, most people can break par on those games, once they get the swing maneuver down.

[Shanks A Million]

BTW, I checked "poor setup" on the poll list. So many golfers I play with are doomed before they even move the club. That one easy thing, takes about a half-hour (including coffee break) to get right, would take more strokes off a handicap than any other thing.

Total BS. There's a great story I've heard, but there was a guy in Texas in the 1950s who thought he was some real hot dog, and walked into the pro shop claiming he could beat anyone. We'll call this guy the fool. The fool was a low handicapper, and quite good. He said he'd beat

anyone , and was willing to bet several thousand dollars. The man behind the counter who we'll call the sage, said he'd take that bet, but to make it more interesting, he'd play standing on one leg. The fool who made the claim was thrilled, how can he lose to the sage if he stands on one leg? The next morning, a fairly large crowd shows up to witness this game. The fool plays well, but the sage absolutely decimates him, the match only lasted a few holes before the fool gave up in humiliation for a reduced sum. So, what does it say about how important setup is when a guy can destroy a low handicap golfer standing on one leg? Don't you think "two feet on the ground" is a fundamental part of the setup? Why do so many people fail to realize that there are a million setups, backswings, and finishes among good players, but only one impact position? If you flip the club you're doomed to have to time your swing perfectly. Sometimes it works, other times (most times) it doesn't. The most fundamental of all fundamentals is maintaining that flying wedge. By the way, the sage in our story is better known as three time Masters champion Jimmy Demerit.

[bogeyhitter25]

Not hitting down on the ball. It doesn't take a ••••ing genius to figure out that you don't have to help the ball in the air.

[B-Con]

Here's a better way to imagine it. Play the Tiger Woods PGA tour game, and see if anyone plays to a high handicap despite using a fairly reliable swing. By that logic, these players would perennially struggle on computer games because their decision making would not be good enough. But that's not the case, most people can break par on those games, once they get the swing maneuver down.

I like that way of putting it.

Not hitting down on the ball. It doesn't take a ••••ing genius to figure out that you don't have to help the ball in the air.

Intellectually that's not hard to grasp. But could anything be more counter-intutitive to most people's natural swing? Even though I know I should be hitting down and it's one of my swing thoughts, the first time I got to video myself (recently) I was shocked at how much flipping I was doing.

I think the primary mode of "helping" the ball into the air is casting/flipping. I'm shocked it has only the third most votes.

[Shanks A Million]

I like that way of putting it.

The old standby, "hit down on the ball" is absolutely the most stupid thing you can tell someone. The club must be moving down, but the player doesn't need to actively try to hit down upon the ball. Doing so only causes problems, shifting the plane, etc. This leads to steep swings with a very narrow margin of error in which to hit the ball, and the flipping

rarely goes away. The real thing to learn is to hit the ball before you reach the bottom of your swing. Set up a decoy 6" in front of a ball, and tell a high handicapper to hit that instead, and watch them hit the ball well. The cold hard truth is, the proper swing feels more like you're hitting the ball before you actually release the power you've stored up. I've managed to hit a few swings in my life on tape with absolutely no flip (drills, of course), and these swings had a very different feel, like the ball's impact was coming well before I felt like I snapped the club.

[Brakkus]

I would say as a high handicapper it's poor execution which leads me to think that overswinging is the main cause.Out on the range it's easy to work on a compact swing and the tempo or rhythm of the swing.I have been hitting it better than ever lately but out on the course my best golf is better but my worst golf is still my worst golf.The quality of shots I hit is much better,but the errors are still as costly so it doesn't matter what my course strategy is if I duff the shot then that stroke is gone period.

Holding your swing mechanics together is the key and I think much of that is down to overswinging.