Open club face drill?

[jfrain2004]

HAve been doing some analysis of my swing and have figured out that my fade is due to an open clubface as opposed to an out to in swing plane. Ball starts straight and then veers off right. If I exagerate a closed clubface at setup I can get a perfect straight to draw ball flight.
Question is how can I tell my hands to get the club closed at impact? I would think that if it's a timing thing then it's probably costing me some club head speed too and hence even more yardage.
What drills can you reccomed to correct this? I have read stuff on rotating my grip to the right to get the club closed at impact but that is more of a band aid than a proper fix.

[Zeph]

HAve been doing some analysis of my swing and have figured out that my fade is due to an open clubface as opposed to an out to in swing plane. Ball starts straight and then veers off right.

That's wrong. If the ball starts straight and curves to the right, your clubface was close to square, but your swing path was out-to-in.

[jfrain2004]

No, The initial direction of the ball is determined by the direction of the clubhead. In to out swing path will produce a ball flight that starts right. Out to In will start the ball Left. How the ball flies after that is determinde by the side spin on it, left side (or right side spin, which in is put on the ball by the open/closed club face.

[Shanks A Million]

HAve been doing some analysis of my swing and have figured out that my fade is due to an open clubface as opposed to an out to in swing plane. Ball starts straight and then veers off right. If I exagerate a closed clubface at setup I can get a perfect straight to draw ball flight.

As was said above, you're incorrect. If the ball starts straight and curves right, it's impossible to not have an out to in swing path. A lot of beginners and even lower handicap amateurs try to rationalize their slice as "a fade" that they hit with an in to out path, but it's so rare that it's hard to believe without evidence. Out to in club paths are very common, even on the PGA tour, many players hit with an out to in swing.

If the club path is inside out or straight, and the ball starts straight or left, it cannot turn back to the right under any circumstances, ever.

[Zeph]

No, The initial direction of the ball is determined by the direction of the clubhead. In to out swing path will produce a ball flight that starts right. Out to In will start the ball Left. How the ball flies after that is determinde by the side spin on it, left side (or right side spin, which in is put on the ball by the open/closed club face.

Nope. Knowing and understanding the ball flight laws are crucial to analysing a shot and figuring out what is causing it.

There is no point in arguing really, this is a proven fact. If you are still not convinced, read the material on these pages: http://thesandtrap.com/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws http://thesandtrap.com/forum/threads...-Flight-Thread

[Shanks A Million]

When I used to have a big problem with hooking the ball, I posted some swings on swing academy. The analysis all said that it was impossible that I was hooking the ball, because the face was clearly open at impact. But the wise observer knows that people who hook the ball usually have an open face at impact, and people who slice it usually have a square or closed face at impact.

[Outfoxed]

(Robot voice) Does Not Compute, Does Not Compute...

[GDIB_net]

Food for thought. Jack Nicklaus' clubface was "open" at impact and I believe he faded the ball to 18 Majors. GDIB

[iacas]

Food for thought. Jack Nicklaus' clubface was "open" at impact and I believe he faded the ball to 18 Majors. GDIB

Jack Nicklaus was a push fader. So was Ben Hogan. Their clubface was open to their stance and swing path but, relative to the target, was aimed LEFT.

The OP has an over-the-top move.

[Shanks A Million]

Jack Nicklaus was a push fader. So was Ben Hogan. Their clubface was open to their stance and swing path but, relative to the target, was aimed LEFT.

Finally, the cavalry has arrived.

I've wondered about that a bit. My pro here says Hogan actually hit a very mild draw as his stock shot, but he would very often hit the fade he was so famous for. I didn't think that sounded correct, I had always heard Hogan hit a push-cut. Trevino is a good example of a push-cutter who swung in to out and hit a fade. Look how far left his feet are aimed! Davis love, on the other hand, has a straight to slight outside in swing that at times can become a vicious pull. Who on tour swings out to in? I think K.J. Choi does. Miguel Angel Jimenez does, I think Vijay does too.

[Zeph]

I saw some clips of Kenny Perry on TV one day from his win at The Memorial. Back then, he hit a fade. I saw his ball starting left, thinking "Oh no, pull", but then it came back. Today, he's hitting big hooks.

If OP need some help, I suggest posting a video.

[GolfBear]

Nope. Knowing and understanding the ball flight laws are crucial to analysing a shot and figuring out what is causing it.

The only concern I have with that first video is that the initial launch angle which is only one component of the end result. I don't have any info on the frictional coefficients of the club/ball interaction but the spin imparted on the ball will have a much larger long term effect than the initial face vector.

[Zeph]

That video is meant to demonstrate that the old ball flight "laws" are wrong, nothing else. Of course, how much the ball spins sideways is crucial to the end result. I don't think anyone can calculate it accurately, but by experimentation, you can get a good idea. Using Trackman or similar equipment can probably help there. A degree or two at impact can cause a huge difference to the end result.

Knowing that the ball starts 85-100% along the club face angle is important to know. Using that information to analyse a shot, we can tell what happened. The OP says his ball starts out straight, but curves off to the right. So, we know that the club face angle is close to square. Being able to see the correct launch angle is of course impossible with the naked eye, and the ball will move off it a bit, depending on the swing path angle. But if the ball starts what looks straight to you, the club face is close to that angle. His ball curves to the right, so the swing path has created sidespin on the ball, which can only happen by the swing path angle being open to the club face angle, which essentially is left of the target. The reason for it is where you have to start to fix the problem. Could be that he is aiming his body left, without knowing it, or he could be coming over the top, which is pretty common.

How many degrees the swing path is out-to-in doesn't really matter. If the ball curves 20 or 40 yards to the right is not important, we know the swing path is wrong and have to work on it. By getting the swing path closer to square, and keeping the same club face angle, the ball will start going straighter. Once you get a better swing path, being in-to-out, in-to-in or out-to-in, you can start working on changing the club face angle at address to hit different shaped shots. You can play good golf with any swing path really, but a slight in-to-out is generally adviced.