Chair drill, turning hips

[westcyderydin]

Anybody watch the golf fix today? this was the best episode i have seen now for a while and probably the most specific for me.

as some ppl might know im working on not sliding my hips forward in my swing, which is controversial on here for some reason, and i am trying to turn them correctly. i have been having problems getting all the way there, but i have been getting close.

michael breed showed a chair drill to make sure you are turning correctly in the backswing. i think this might be a missing link as to why i still have some forward slide before my hips turn (in my forward swing), which puts my hips pretty far in front of my hands and the ball at impact and hurts my back.

with this chair drill you put a small chair just behind your back hip. then you want to have your back hip go farther from the chair instead of closer to it. i have had problems with swaying back in the past, but i thought i had been turning back correctly. i was just a little off.

so after doing this drill and getting the feeling of a correct hip turn in the backswing i feel like i will be able to turn better in the down swing. not tested on the range yet but i think this might get me closer.

[Shanks A Million]

as some ppl might know im working on not sliding my hips forward in my swing, which is controversial on here for some reason, and i am trying to turn them correctly.

Because you're flat out f&%$#@g wrong, that's why. You turn them back, then

slide them forward. If you don't slide them forward, you almost have to come over the top, there's nowhere for your hands to go. It's one of the most important fundamentals of golf. The impact position of a thousand good golfers will show you all you need to know, so why argue? I guess these guys don't strike it too well, eh? Or some other hackers: But, apparently,their hips have actually turned, not slid forward. All they did was secretly move their heads and feet backwards during the backswing... They're trying to hide their secret! Very tricky.

[mattttt25]

Any chance you guys are saying the same thing? Doesn't the proper hip turn cause the lower "trunk" to move forward towards the target?

[Shanks A Million]

Any chance you guys are saying the same thing? Doesn't the proper hip turn cause the lower "trunk" to move forward towards the target?

No, the proper slide causes the hips to turn. You want this, it gets the club to fall behind the body naturally, letting you hit from the inside.

[westcyderydin]

no im not going to try to argue the semantics. i am not saying that the hips dont move forward at all. if u draw a line like that it should look just like it did. there is no way your hips could not move forward a little bit. thats great. when i say slide your hips its kind of like a first move down at the ball that moves your hips way in front of your hands. if they are sliding, they cannot be turning.

its something that not only i do (used to do i guess), but a few of my friends as well. some of the better golfers ive ever golfed with have expressed the importance not to slide your hips forward, the professional i saw 3 weeks ago was trying to get this out of my swing, and even michael breed was saying it is a swing fault of his that he falls into.

[Zeph]

if they are sliding, they cannot be turning.

Why not? Slow motion video of good players beg to differ.

its something that not only i do (used to do i guess), but a few of my friends as well. some of the better golfers ive ever golfed with have expressed the importance not to slide your hips forward, the professional i saw 3 weeks ago was trying to get this out of my swing, and even michael breed was saying it is a swing fault of his that he falls into.

Feel is not real, they may be sliding without really knowing it. Since when was Michael Breed correct about everything?

[westcyderydin]

yes, sliding is the opposite of turning, pretty basic. what you are talking about is different but you are calling it the same thing.

[Zeph]

I don't understand what you mean. Sliding is moving the hips laterally toward the target, rotating is turning the hips in an angled circle. Why can't both be done at the same time?

Watching a swing from DTL and FO, you can see two things. On the DTL view, the hips start rotating back from 30-45º closed at the top of the backswing to square or 10-20º open at impact. Looking at the FO view, the hips don't move a whole lot going back, this varies with each swing, but every good player gets the hips going forward from the top of the backswing. Impact is the important position, how you get there doesn't mean a whole lot to the result, but of course some ways are easier. Some pros move the hips away from the target on the backswing, but manage to get them back and farther forward before impact. Some don't move the hips back (laterally), and from the top push them forward (while rotating). Regardless of how they get there, the impact position is usually the same, with the hips being more forward than at address and the top of the backswing.

This is where videos are useful. You may be sliding enough already, without knowing it. Your hips may be too fast, which mess with the balance.

[saevel25]

I think what it helps with is getting away from shifting your hips diagonally, instead of laterally. If you have the chair thats parrallel to your target line, then having your left hip staying connected at the finish will keep you from sliding the hips out to the right and hanging back on the right foot.

[iacas]

if they are sliding, they cannot be turning.

Can you rub your tummy and pat your head at the same time?

Okay, bad example... but your hips can push AND rotate at the same time. You're wrong about that.

some of the better golfers ive ever golfed with have expressed the importance not to slide your hips forward, the professional i saw 3 weeks ago was trying to get this out of my swing, and even michael breed was saying it is a swing fault of his that he falls into.

Michael Breed is a dope. He says that you want a flat shoulder turn. He says you want to keep the same flex in your right knee. Watch his swing and compare what he does to what he says...

As for what "some of the better golfers you've ever golfed with" have said, who cares? THE BEST GOLFERS IN THE WORLD clearly slide their hips forward (and rotate them, duh) quite a bit. I don't know about you, but I'll take the visual proof of Tiger Woods, Ben Hogan, Jack Nicklaus, etc. over the word of a few people who break par on occasion.

yes, sliding is the opposite of turning, pretty basic. what you are talking about is different but you are calling it the same thing.

????

[GolfBear]

There is nothing wrong with "sliding" your hips towards the target. It shouldn't be a forced slide though but rather a natural progression that results from forward weight shift and the uncoiling of the hips.

Just keep in mind though, you're chasing the "perfect" golf swing. There are a lot of players who hit the ball VERY well with a less than ideal swing.

As for what "some of the better golfers you've ever golfed with" have said, who cares? THE BEST GOLFERS IN THE WORLD clearly slide their hips forward (and rotate them, duh) quite a bit. I don't know about you, but I'll take the visual proof of Tiger Woods, Ben Hogan, Jack Nicklaus, etc. over the word of a few people who break par on occasion.

Nicklaus also played the ball in the center of his stance for all clubs and had a "flying right elbow". There is no one right way to hit a golf ball.

[Zeph]

Nicklaus also played the ball in the center of his stance for all clubs and had a "flying right elbow".

No, Jack played every club off the inside of the left heel.

[iacas]

There is nothing wrong with "sliding" your hips towards the target. It shouldn't be a forced slide though but rather a natural progression that results from forward weight shift and the uncoiling of the hips.

That's wrong in reality, because nobody "naturally progresses" to the left side. The HIP PUSH is what GETS the weight to the lead side at impact and through. The vast majority of amateurs have to increase their hip slide... and the vast majority have too much weight back at impact.

Just keep in mind though, you're chasing the "perfect" golf swing. There are a lot of players who hit the ball VERY well with a less than ideal swing.

There are no good players who do not push their hips forward coming down, because it goes to the #1 fundamental - that you hit the ball before the ground (low point is in front of the golf ball). I'm not chasing perfection - I'm chasing "best geometry" - and there's nothing wrong with that.

Nicklaus also played the ball in the center of his stance for all clubs and had a "flying right elbow". There is no one right way to hit a golf ball.

Nicklaus played the ball forward off his left heel, and these comments are irrelevant... he pushed his hips forward through impact just like everyone else.

[GolfBear]

That's wrong in reality, because nobody "naturally progresses" to the left side. The HIP PUSH is what GETS the weight to the lead side at impact and through. The vast majority of amateurs have to increase their hip slide... and the vast majority have too much weight back at impact.

You can easily keep all your weight on the right side while sliding your hips left but you're swing is going to suck. If everything doesn't progress toward the target you're not going to hit the ball with any kind of distance or consistency.

There are no good players who do not push their hips forward coming down, because it goes to the #1 fundamental - that you hit the ball before the ground (low point is in front of the golf ball). I'm not chasing perfection - I'm chasing "best geometry" - and there's nothing wrong with that.

No argument here, I just think it's a natural progression that results from properly hitting the ball.

Nicklaus played the ball forward off his left heel, and these comments are irrelevant... he pushed his hips forward through impact just like everyone else.

You're being obtuse. Yes I was wrong, it was left heel and not center but the point is the same. NO ONE coaches a single ball position anymore and his elbow would be changed by every major swing coach today. The hip turn/weight shift is the one constant because there's no way to effectively hit a golf ball without it.

[iacas]

You can easily keep all your weight on the right side while sliding your hips left but you're swing is going to suck.

No you can't. Your hips going forward can't possibly leave "all your weight" on the right side while "sliding your hips left." Not a chance.

If everything doesn't progress toward the target you're not going to hit the ball with any kind of distance or consistency.

"Everything" doesn't progress toward the target? Your head should stay fairly well centered but your hips will push forward, rotate, and tuck beneath you.

NO ONE coaches a single ball position anymore

Quite a few do, but I'd agree there are less now than 20 years ago, and they're a small percentage. But what that has to do with this topic I don't know.

The hip turn/weight shift is the one constant because there's no way to effectively hit a golf ball without it.

... which is what I've been saying... It's a simple fact of geometry and physics: you need to push your hips to get the weight shift. The only other way to get a weight shift would be to leave your hips back and push your upper bod forward, but I know we'll all agree THAT is not the way to hit the golf ball.

And please, you can debate without calling others "obtuse." You said it - take more time to be more specific or to use proper semantics. You'll probably tell me that I was obtuse in replying to "you can easily keep all your weight on the right side while sliding your hips left" but all I can do is read what you wrote and respond... can't read minds here. Say what you mean, please.

[saevel25]

Well the confusion with getting weight to the left side and getting weight stuck on the right side (for right handed) is a matter of being synced up. Pro's talk about not having a weight shift, but it has to do with the upper body staying back and the lower body flying out. The natural movement of rotating the hips in of it self will cause a weight shift because we are bipedal. Its impossible to rotate through a fixed axis with the legs because there isn't a fixed axis, there are two axis formed by the hip gurdle. The only thing that swings around an axis is the upper body due to the connection to a singular spinal column. So thats why it gets stuck, because there are two legs and one spine and the connection at the hip gurdle causes issues.

[GolfBear]

No you can't. Your hips going forward can't possibly leave "all your weight" on the right side while "sliding your hips left." Not a chance.

When you hold your head still and slide your hips to the left your spine angle moves to the right, it's physiologically impossible for it not to. That spine tilt forces your upper body to the right thereby forcing a large percentage of your bodies mass to the right side. So while not "all" of your weight is on the right side a sizeable portion is.

[Shanks A Million]

When you hold your head still and slide your hips to the left your spine angle moves to the right, it's physiologically impossible for it not to. That spine tilt forces your upper body to the right thereby forcing a large percentage of your bodies mass to the right side. So while not "all" of your weight is on the right side a sizeable portion is.

Our whole "weight shift" comes from where the parts of our body reside, because we want our heads to stay still. When we turn back, our shoulders and arms move to the rear, thus weight must now be over the rear foot. When we go forward, we have to slide our hips forward to get our hands to come from the inside, and the arms and shoulders must move forward as well to turn through the swing. Now the majority of our weight is on the left side. Simple. There should be no real "weight shift" as it were that we try to feel, but the weight should shift naturally because of where the mass of the body resides at different points in the swing.