playing the ball 'up'

[Mizzoujohn]

I know a lot of people frown upon this. Of course, fluffing the ball even when in a fairly good lie is wacky. However, where do we draw the line? What about in a bad patch of fairway where the ball is on the dirt between two clumps of grass? do we play that as it lies or put it on the clump of grass? what do the purists think?
John

[motteler621]

I say always play it where it lies if you are serious about the game and getting better, unless there is a rule you can follow, like ground under repair.

[kennay92]

if im just out there having fun with my dad or somethin, i would put it on that patch of grass. If im really trying to keep score and use scores for hc, then no.

[Mizzoujohn]

I understand what you guys are saying, but I would counter to say that a pga player would never be hitting off the dirt in between clumps of grass in the fairway, so why should I?

[Zeph]

I understand what you guys are saying, but I would counter to say that a pga player would never be hitting off the dirt in between clumps of grass in the fairway, so why should I?

Why not? If a PGA player happens to land his ball in a divot, he will have to play out of it. There are lots of advantages the PGA players got over us, but we are not playing PGA courses under PGA conditions.

And how often do you find yourself in a spot like that?

[chef35ca]

Play it as it's dictated on that course.

If it's lift clean & place in effect, do it. Playing hero on the west coast in december is not worth it sometimes.

Otherwise play it as it lies. You hit it there, so deal with it. I've lost countless strokes from hitting out of divots, rough, from under or behind trees, etc. & i've counted every one.

I see people 'roll' their ball all the time. Their prerogative i suppose. Not sure why they bother keeping score, though. There's cheaper things to do if one is inclined to cheat.

[James_Black]

if the rules say play as it lies.
Play the ball as it lies.

It all depends if your playing in a tournament or with friends.
I'd still play it as it lies with friends but I don't care if they place it.
If it's a tournament, you have to play it.

[JWL1957]

If Im playing with friends for a beer or a small nassau..... we play it up. We allow each other to bump the ball within a foot or so in the fairway only. I hate to see them stripe one right down the middle and have to watch them hitting their next shot from a ankle deep divot. We also have a root rule were we can move it just enough to get a clear swing without breaking a shaft or wrist. We keep it fun.

The purists on here might find ours methods within the rules of golf, but keep in mind that a great many courses and clubs use winter rules in thier own tournaments year round.

[Able Hands]

I used to fluff nearly every shot I hit. More recently, since I've really decided I want to get better and track my real score I play where it lies. The only time I move a ball now, is if the lie will do damage to my club, and then I take a penalty stroke. I suppose if I made the kind of money the tour pros do, I could play better courses, and not worry as much about damaging clubs. My first trip out with my new x18r irons, I took a pratice swing in the rough, hit a small rock, and put a nice ding in the bounce of my twice used SW.

[Dartguy]

If you hit a good shot, and are fortunate enough to land in the fairway, then you should have a good lie. To me, there should be no luck involved if you have hit the perfect shot in the fairway. You can get a drop from a sprinkler head, why not get relief from some douchebag's divot?

[acegolfer]

Here's my take. If you want to improve your game, play as it lies. If you want to have fun, play up. If you are in a tournament, follow the local rule.

I started playing as is and putting out everything. My HI is higher than 5 years ago but I feel better about my game now.

[double_j]

I'll play the ball down and I do believe that this has done more to improve my game than any amount of practice, etc.. Learning how to hit out of bad lies makes hitting the good ones so much easier!

That said, I will give myself what I call the "Muni course club preservation drop", which dictates that unless I'm in a place where it's normal to expect rocks, etc. to be in your lie, I'll give myself some kind of relief from anything that might severely damage my clubs while keeping roughly the same lie/conditions as the original predicament. BTW - tree roots don't fall into this category since they're a normal part of any course, this really only applies towards the odd rock buried in the groud, etc.

[Kieran123]

If the ball lands in ground under repair, I move it BACK to a better lie.

If i am in a bunker full of rocks ( for some reason common in Calgary??? ), I also move my ball to better sand because I don't wanna dent my clubs.

[Fourputt]

I know a lot of people frown upon this. Of course, fluffing the ball even when in a fairly good lie is wacky. However, where do we draw the line? What about in a bad patch of fairway where the ball is on the dirt between two clumps of grass? do we play that as it lies or put it on the clump of grass? what do the purists think?

This may be the first "rule" I ever heard about the game of golf, long before I ever played myself.

Play the ball as it lies . Don't touch it, don't move it. Always. Unless a Rule either allows or requires you to do otherwise. It doesn't matter where the ball lies.... in a water hazard, bunker, rough or fairway. I love the way so many players try to justify breaching the rules by saying the play they ball down except when there are rocks or tree roots or they have a bad lie. The last I heard, trees and rocks are natural features of golf courses. As is bare ground in some places. Sometimes the rules give you relief for those places and sometimes they don't. If not then there is always Rule 28 - Ball Unplayable. Otherwise, doesn't it just make sense to learn how to hit the shots? In nearly 40 years of playing golf I've never yet done terminal damage to a golf club when making a stroke, yet I've played from roots, rocks, bare hardpan, concrete and asphalt cart paths, gravel maintenance roads, bridges over hazards.... you name it. If you can find it on a golf course I've probably hit off it. I just determine the best shot I think I can pull off from the lie, then try to play it. That does NOT meaning always taking a full swing, but I can generally advance the ball and still give myself a chance to score, and do so without damaging myself or the golf club. Actually, pulling off those shots is half the fun of playing golf. If you want to demoralize an opponent, make par from the base of a tree, or hit to within chipping range from a gravel road with deep rough on both sides and no place to drop. That is great fun.

[pittpanther]

Here's my take.

But this only works if you PRACTICE all these bad lies. Do you practice hitting out of divots? Do you practice hitting off bare dirt? Do you practice hitting your ball out of a field of tree roots? If not, I question how anyone would really "improve" at these shots, by only seeing them once or twice per round, and never on the range...

I started playing as is and putting out everything. My HI is higher than 5 years ago but I feel better about my game now.

You said "playing as it lies" would improve your game. So why is your HI higher now than before? Shouldn't you be "better" now than you were before?

I'm not arguing that taking fluff lies is the right thing to do, but the reason not to do it is that it's against the rules. I don't see that hitting those wierd lies will do anything to make you better, unless you also PRACTICE all those wierd lies. Phil M hit a great shot off the cart path last weekend - but I guarantee he had hit thousands of balls off of cart paths and hard pan before attempting it during a round.

[case31]

I see people 'roll' their ball all the time. Their prerogative i suppose.

I play regularly with a guy that will roll the ball in the rough. It doesn't bother me, as we're just playing to play, no money on the line or anything. However, we've talked numerous times about playing in two-man tournaments together, but I get concerned because I don't want to deal with the scenario where he rolls the ball and gets called on it.

[Harmonious]

Play the course as you find it. The rules cover such things as Ground Under Repair, Embedded Ball, Cart Paths and Casual Water. If it's not covered in the rules, you play it as it lies. If you are on hardpan, you play off the hardpan. If it's next to a root, you figure out a way to play it from there. In a divot, same thing.

I can't remember exactly, but I believe Tom Kite tells a story about Harvey Penick. It seems there was a junior (Kite and Ben Crenshaw were juniors at that time) tournament at the course in Texas where Penick was the pro. Some kid asked Penick whether they were going to play "winter rules". Penick replied something to the effect that they would be playing under the rules of golf. Anything other than that was playing some other game, not golf. Kite said that stuck with him from that day forward.

To Pittpanther: Why not hit a few practice shots out of divots at the range? You might find that they aren't so difficult as you imagine. Then when you face one on the course, you'll know what to do.

[sacm3bill]

If you hit a good shot, and are fortunate enough to land in the fairway, then you should have a good lie. To me, there should be no luck involved if you have hit the perfect shot in the fairway. You can get a drop from a sprinkler head, why not get relief from some douchebag's divot?

I agree with your douchebag take, but.... If you hit a bad shot into the trees and get a lucky kick back out onto the fairway, do you put it back into the trees, to reproduce the lie you "should've" had?