Swinging more around the body with driver?

[trickymicky69]

Let me tell you my story......
I can hit my irons pretty solidly, good with the wedges and 99.9% of the time I can melt my three wood off the deck.
I have real trouble hitting my driver though (this is the way most of these threads start I guess!)
I was playing with a scratch golfer last night and as the round was coming to an end he said to me that I swing my driver like I swing my irons.

i.e very upright

He says my clubhead path is good, my grip is good and while my tempo is a little fast with the driver its not too bad.

He reckons I should try and mirror my address position in the backswing (more flat) and swing more around my centre.

He says it should really help with my high push-fade?

Thoughts please....

[TN94z]

If you are swinging as steep with your driver as you do with your irons, I don't see how you could be coming from the inside with such a long club without getting stuck somewhere

[Harmonious]

He says my clubhead path is good, my grip is good and while my tempo is a little fast with the driver its not too bad.

Sounds like good advice. Most higher handicaps I see have a far too upright swing with their driver. Usually causes them to fall back with an over the top swing. Not pretty. Your "push-fade" may in fact be just an ordinary slice caused by coming over the top with an open face.

[trickymicky69]

I think I see the logic

But can I hit a push-fade without coming from the inside? my ball is leaving the face on a diagnally (sp) straight trajectory if that makes sense - then fading right at the end

If you are swinging as steep with your driver as you do with your irons, I don't see how you could be coming from the inside with such a long club without getting stuck somewhere

I dont think he was saying I am as steep with my driver as I am with my 60* I imagine he would mean the plane is too close to my head and not enough behind me?

also with just the driver I feel like I cannot get over to me left side at impact - any ideas? Its ok with the other clubs

[colin007]

But can I hit a push-fade without coming from the inside?

im no expert, but i dont think a true push fade can be done without hitting from the inside. nicklaus and trevino were push faders who hit from the inside.

[trickymicky69]

So I tried it tonight

First one was an absolute load of s**t

Then drive after drive of pure brilliance!

At worst a small fade, at best a nice gentle draw (I have never hit a draw in my life, a hook maybe but never a draw)

On thing I did find as well is that it seemed to slow me down as the "lever" seemed that much longer

[Yukari]

He is absolutely right. If you have too upright swing with your driver, you'll most likely hit a slice.

[Yukari]

He is absolutely right. If you have too upright swing with your driver, you'll most likely hit a slice.

BTW--great Avatar

[trickymicky69]

Thanks - the wife would only let me use it it if I let her keep her clothes on.......

[senorchipotle]

He is absolutely right. If you have too upright swing with your driver, you'll most likely hit a slice.

i'm not too sure about that. my driver swing is pretty steep and i hit a draw with mine. i think it takes a bit more timing precision, but i find it a lot easier to work the ball with a steeper swing. when i flatten it out i get wayward shots cause it's harder to stay on plane.

[Yukari]

i'm not too sure about that. my driver swing is pretty steep and i hit a draw with mine. i think it takes a bit more timing precision, but i find it a lot easier to work the ball with a steeper swing. when i flatten it out i get wayward shots cause it's harder to stay on plane.

Perhaps you have a more upright stance or a strong grip to begin with.

In general, upright swing comes from taking the club back outside. At the top, you are already in "over the top position" that promotes fade/slice. Picture taking the club straight back, i.e., upright swing. As you can see at the top, you are outside the swing plane, i.e., over the top.

[trickymicky69]

I am finding that I have no need to release the club on the new flatter plane and I dont need to manipulate my swing path

It just seems to work

[senorchipotle]

Perhaps you have a more upright stance or a strong grip to begin with.

no, i'm actually on plane, and my grip isn't strong. tiger has been working with hank to flatten out his swing, and he is consistently off plane. when he had a more vertical swing working under butch he just gripped it and ripped it and was always on plane.

tiger under hank: tiger under butch:

[iacas]

tiger has been working with hank to flatten out his swing, and he is consistently off plane. when he had a more vertical swing working under butch he just gripped it and ripped it and was always on plane.

You seem to believe that there's just one plane to be on, when in fact that's not the case at all. There's no "one" plane. You can't look at someone's left arm and say "he's on plane" or "he's not on plane."

On plane is having the butt of the club and the clubhead ready to deliver STRAIGHT down the plane line into the ball. Thus, to be most "on plane" the club would arguably be on the shaft's plane at impact. 53° is Tiger's elbow plane at setup in this video. He takes it to 56° at the top (while the clubhead stays on the elbow plane) and drops it to 47° at impact, so technically he's above plane here. You'll note that if you drew a line out of his left arm he'd be "off plane" according to your diagnosis - and he is slightly - but if I had the impact positions of the two photos you used I'd wager he'd be more off plane in the Butch swing because his shaft plane at impact wasn't as high as it would need to be for THAT to be on plane. The images you've chosen really don't show anything. He's not more "on plane" in one or the other. P.S. Virtually everyone's plane drops a bit from the grip-to-ball at the top to grip-to-ball at impact. Just as the plane will often rise up slightly (from shaft plane to elbow plane is my preference) in the backswing, it'll drop down a little bit in the downswing. The reason for both - the right elbow folding and straightening out. The right elbow is still bent at impact which is why it doesn't get to the hands plane again. Oh, the big point... There's no "one plane" to swing on. The plane for any golfer is whatever plane they're on at impact or slightly above it to accommodate for the right elbow. If your swing is upright and your impact position has a shaft much more upright then you're on plane as much as a guy who's a bit flatter with a flatter impact position. There's no "one" plane.

[trickymicky69]

I don't know if I am "on-plane" or not.

All I know is I am not slicing anymore and I am getting more distance with less effort

With less balooning

[Scott_K]

I get better results when I swing "around my body". When I'm focused and I remember to start my backswing on a flatter plane, I can see the clubhead go back on the inside of the target line. It feels a little awkward as I get to the top because I'm not use to it. The downswing is more of an "effortless effort" type of swing and feels slower. I don't have any significant distance loss so I imagine that the clubhead speed is still there. This is pretty much with my driver.

When I use an upright swing, I seem to take the clubhead back on the target line or on the outside of it. I tend to sway to the right more in the backswing and my weight ends up being on the outside of my right foot. I believe it also puts me in a position to go over the top and the only way to compensate is to reroute the club on the downswing. I can do this here and there, but not with any predictablity.

[trickymicky69]

I get better results when I swing "around my body". When I'm focused and I remember to start my backswing on a flatter plane, I can see the clubhead go back on the inside of the target line. It feels a little awkward as I get to the top because I'm not use to it. The downswing is more of an "effortless effort" type of swing and feels slower. I don't have any significant distance loss so I imagine that the clubhead speed is still there. This is pretty much with my driver.

My thoughts exactly. It just seems so much more effortless and balanced.

What has me really upset though is I have had lessons and nobody has picked up on it but one game with a good golfer and he spots it straight away!