OB when walking

[alf174]

No, but there are places in the USGA Handicap Guidelines for what to do if you don't play a hole according to the Rules of Golf. This can be finding a ball O.B. (or not finding a ball) and deciding not to go back to the tee. This can be someone playing goaltender on the putting green. There are any number of times when you don't, for whatever reason, play by the rules during a non-competitive round, and there are rules for what to do for purposes of reporting your score.

I carry the Rule book but have never refered to the Guidelines. I quickly searched the USGA website but didn't find anything, any chance you have a link? Thanks

[sacm3bill]

Id be pretty upset if I was on a crowed course and the guy in front of me tee'd off walked 300 yards, searched, walk 300 back and wanted to re-tee, especially if he is playing alone.

Agreed, and even if they have a cart it's silly to do so, IMO. If you didn't hit a provisional, take a drop, add 2 strokes, and move on - assuming a non-competitive round of course.

I carry the Rule book but have never refered to the Guidelines. I quickly searched the USGA website but didn't find anything, any chance you have a link? Thanks

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual Specifically, relevant to this dicsussion:

4-1. Unfinished Holes and Conceded Strokes A player who starts, but does not complete a hole or is conceded a stroke must record for handicap purposes the most likely score. The most likely score may not exceed the player's Equitable Stroke Control limit, defined in Section 4-3. This most likely score should be preceded by an "X." (See Decision 4-1/1.) There is no limit to the number of unfinished holes a player may have in a round, provided that failure to finish is not for the purpose of handicap manipulation.

[alf174]

Your link doesn't work (for me).

4-1 doesn't address the topic of OB balls and/or not returning to the point that the OB ball was hit.

[DocWu1948]

Id be pretty upset if I was on a crowed course and the guy infront of me tee'd off walked 300 yards, searched, walk 300 back and wanted to re-tee, especially if he is playing alone.

This happened to us, where a guy came back in a cart to re-tee after discovering that his drive rolled into an adjoining pond. At the time, I thought it was OK, but now, I wonder if this is considered a lateral hazard with a drop being allowed.

[iacas]

Id be pretty upset if I was on a crowed course and the guy infront of me tee'd off walked 300 yards, searched, walk 300 back and wanted to re-tee, especially if he is playing alone.

More like 220 in most cases.

[c. lassiter]

Id be pretty upset if I was on a crowed course and the guy infront of me tee'd off walked 300 yards, searched, walk 300 back and wanted to re-tee, especially if he is playing alone.

I would too, but in all my years of playing I have never once seen I have never once seen this happen. Which must mean that everyone is hitting provisionals (or everyone is cheating).

[Fourputt]

What other rules do you make up as you are walking your round? Several of your posts have mentioned how important it is to keep the pace of play but nowhere in that USGA Rule Book (that I've found) will you find it mentioned that the rules can be bent/violated/whatever in order to ensure "pace of play". If you play by the rules and if there is even a minuscule chance that its OB, hit a provisional. The rules allow it and the rules encourage it. If I don't see where my shot ended up and I believe it not to be in the fairway, I declare I'm hitting a provisional, drop one, and hit it. It uses the least amount of time without bending the rules.

For handicap purposes there are 2 ways that you can score up to 5 unfinished holes in an 18 hole round. You can either take a par plus any handicap strokes you are authorized for any hole where you never even started the hole, or if you start the hole and don't finish it, you can mark down the score you would most likely have made had you finished from where you picked up. As long as 13 holes are played by the rules, you are allowed to "estimate" the other 5. this is only for the purpose of returing the score for handicap, not for a competion. This is allowed under the USGA rules for returning handicap scores.

[zeg]

What other rules do you make up as you are walking your round? Several of your posts have mentioned how important it is to keep the pace of play but nowhere in that USGA Rule Book (that I've found) will you find it mentioned that the rules can be bent/violated/whatever in order to ensure "pace of play". If you play by the rules and if there is even a minuscule chance that its OB, hit a provisional. The rules allow it and the rules encourage it. If I don't see where my shot ended up and I believe it not to be in the fairway, I declare I'm hitting a provisional, drop one, and hit it. It uses the least amount of time without bending the rules.

Bah, you're making unfounded assumptions about how I play the game. Like anyone familiar with the rules, I play provisionals when appropriate, and I actually do go back to play proper stroke and distance when appropriate.

However, like it or not, there are times that you may have to pick up or otherwise break the Rules of Golf, and there are times that your enjoyment of a CASUAL round of golf may be greater if you don't subject yourself to the full frustration that would be necessary if you were playing in a competition. Even if you don't want to accept that, you should be aware that the USGA does, and has put in place the rules I (and others) have referenced above. It's in section 4 of the USGA Handicap Manual. Read it. It's commonly said that if you're not playing by the Rules, you're not playing Golf. That may be true, and although I personally DO follow the rules, it's not my place, it's not your place, and it's not the USGA's or the R&A;'s place to tell anyone holding a golf club that they must play by the Rules at all time. Even if you're maintaining a handicap, there's no requirement that every time you set foot on the course you play by the Rules. If you do play by the Rules for enough holes, then you are actually REQUIRED to report that score using the estimation procedures they set out. (Note, contrary to what I said in an earlier post, if you fail to complete a hole by the Rules, I think you're supposed to just take par + handicap strokes for the hole, rather than estimating how you'd have finished. That seems to be reserved for holes where you simply pick up, either because the hole is conceded or for any other reason. This doesn't seem right to me, but 4-1 does not seem to permit estimating the remaining strokes in the event that you play half the hole by the Rules, then deviate. That seems to fall into 4-2, where it's equivalent to an unplayed hole.)

[andy101]

Thats why the provisional is there. In the cases where you not 100% whether you're in or out OB is where you need to hit a provisional.

[alf174]

Bah, you're making unfounded assumptions about how I play the game. Like anyone familiar with the rules, I play provisionals when appropriate, and I actually do go back to play proper stroke and distance when appropriate.

I make no assumptions, I asked you how much you deviate from the rules. To me, it does seem from your posts that you tend to defend these "guideline exceptions" more often that trying to stick to the rules. If not, good for you.

I have the same arguement almost every Sunday morning with a playing partner that won't take stroke & distance on OB shots, only adds a stroke. Even if its clear that his ball is long gone out of play. He takes the "lateral drop" from where the ball entered. Then likes to declare he shot in the low 90s and compare it to others who played penalties correctly. He wonders why I won't bet; to me its clear we're not playing the same game. When I post a score for handicap purposes, the scores were based on the published rules of golf to the best of my knowledge & ability. I have posted incomplete scores if weather or lack of sunlight chased me off the course before I could finish & will use an average from previously posted rounds of the holes that I couldn't complete. And I post every round, even the truely ugly ones. But I digress. Back to the OP, I play a provisional more often when I'm walking then when riding because I don't want to slow pace of play. If I don't see the ball and I hit near near the OB stakes then I'm hitting a provisional, takes about 2 seconds to decide.

[Fourputt]

When playing a casual round which will be posted for handicap, you also have to keep ESC in mind when playing by the rules. As a home course handicap of 14, I can return a maximum of 7 on any hole for handicap, so if by playing strictly by the rules I have reached a point where 7 or more would be the best I could score, then it no longer matters whether I take a "proper" stroke and distance penalty, or if I just take a drop and play on. It will have no effect on the score I return anyway, so why worry about it at that point. If I'm playing for a wager or some such, then I play by the rules, or by whatever plan I and my friends have agreed on.

[alf174]

When playing a casual round which will be posted for handicap, you also have to keep ESC in mind when playing by the rules. As a home course handicap of 14, I can return a maximum of 7 on any hole for handicap, so if by playing strictly by the rules I have reached a point where 7 or more would be the best I could score, then it no longer matters whether I take a "proper" stroke and distance penalty, or if I just take a drop and play on. It will have no effect on the score I return anyway, so why worry about it at that point. If I'm playing for a wager or some such, then I play by the rules, or by whatever plan I and my friends have agreed on.

The majority of time that I play, I'm either playing buddies for beer or skins, or if walking by myself I'm competing to better my previous scores. So I'm usually always finishing the hole regardless of the score and let the automatic ESC built-in with my handicap provider take care of blow-ups when posting. My esc limit is snow-man and don't recall having but a few blow-up holes over that this year (thankfully).

[cody west]

i play alot of provisionals. im a skinny guy with the heart of a fat guy so there is no way in hell im getting stuck walking back. if my ball goes as much as 10 yards near an ob stake im hitting a provisional.
this doesnt mean im going to play it but its out there jsut incase, you know?

[Amofada]

I you're less than a foot OB in a casual round you're not OB

[The Recreational Golfer]

The rules give us a perfect option, the provisional ball, that would prevent anyone from ever having to walk back to the tee. What's wrong with using that option and getting into the habit of playing according to the rules even in a casual round? It is never impractical to go back and hit again because if you play by the rules, you're never in a position where you have to do it.

Actually, there is a lot wrong with dropping and taking a two-stroke penalty. You avoid having to hit the same shot again that you just flubbed. You take the OB out of play on your next shot, which, if you were playing according to the rules, you couldn't do. Having a bad case of the lefts today and you just yanked one OB left off the tee? No problem! Just walk up to where the OB isn't a factor anymore and play on! The penalty, BTW, for doing this would be a DQ even if it's only a handicap round because of violating Rule 1-3. You could not turn in this score for your handicap even if you did add penalty strokes.

Finally, if you play according to the rules when it doesn't matter, no one will wonder about you when it does.

[zeg]

The penalty, BTW, for doing this would be a DQ even if it's only a handicap round because of violating Rule 1-3. You could not turn in this score for your handicap even if you did add penalty strokes.

Not to beat a dead horse, but after the whole thread, that statement is 100% incorrect. You MUST report the score for handicap, using the estimated score for that hole instead of the score you arrived in violation of the Rules. Read section 4-2 of the USGA Handicap Manual easily available on

www.usga.gov . Regarding provisionals, they're very useful, but not "perfect." It is possible to unexpectedly lose a ball in near rough or even the fairway, not to mention unusual trouble that's hidden from the tee. It's odd, it's frustrating, but it happens. In those cases, if you're on a clogged up course and already running late for whatever reason, if you feel it's appropriate to insist on replaying the shot from the tee box after a long walk, good for you. It doesn't make your handicap any more legitimate.

[sacm3bill]

Your link doesn't work (for me).

Sorry, try

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handi...ndicap-Manual/ (Or you could've just googled "USGA handicap guidelines".)

4-1 doesn't address the topic of OB balls and/or not returning to the point that the OB ball was hit.

It does, in the generic sense that you're playing an unfinished hole if you didn't go back to the tee after an OB. You didn't finish it properly by the rules of golf, but you can still put down a "most likely score" for handicapping purposes. Taking a drop and adding 2 will do exactly that.

Actually, there is a lot wrong with dropping and taking a two-stroke penalty. You avoid having to hit the same shot again that you just flubbed. You take the OB out of play on your next shot, which, if you were playing according to the rules, you couldn't do.

You (and others) are confusing taking an OB drop in a casual round (the original subject of this thread) with doing so during a competitive round where you must complete every hole. I don't think anyone here is advocating the latter - if they are, they're wrong.

As far as scoring for handicapping purposes, yes, there is a possibility that if you had gone back to the tee you might have hit it OB again. But as Rick pointed out, by the time you took your first drop + 2 strokes, you're probably going to be pretty close to your ESC for the hole anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

[zeg]

It does, in the generic sense that you're playing an unfinished hole if you didn't go back to the tee after an OB. You didn't finish it properly by the rules of golf, but you can still put down a "most likely score" for handicapping purposes. Taking a drop and adding 2 will do exactly that.

I'd believed this also, but on re-reading, since 4-2 does specifically deal with holes not played by the Rules of Golf and equates it to an unplayed hole, I think perhaps it's all or nothing for a hole played by the Rules. This seems a bit odd to me, but I don't see any other way to read the section. Any thoughts?

You (and others) are confusing taking an OB drop in a casual round (the original subject of this thread) with doing so during a competitive round where you must complete every hole. I don't think anyone here is advocating the latter - if they are, they're wrong.

Agreed. I'm certainly not suggesting cheating in a competition.