2010 PGA Championship

[motteler621]

And Whistling Straits made it abundantly clear that every bunker was a bunker. What could they have done? Mark ever bunker that is a bunker, or every bunker that is a waste area? The pictures shows that this clearly is a bunker by the state of it.

well they did try to inform players that all the bunkers were bunkers by putting a note up in the locker room lol. If they wanted to really help the players understand that every bunker is a bunker they should of had a rules official go over to DJ when they found out his ball hit a trampled patch of sand dirt,grass and trash and was about to win the freakin championship! It was obviously a state of concern for the officials before the tournament.They officials knew were he was when he hit his tee shot and Dustin was still on the tee. They were probably watching with anticipation to see if he would treat that as a hazard area or as a bunker instead of sending someone to him while he was walking through the fairway to his ball. ridiculous

[Jay-Bird]

WTF is your problem? You are delusional if you think the title of the thread precludes explaining what the different types of bunkers are. And, I never said DJ should be excused from the rule, the correct ruling in this case was made. I have mentioned the rules sheet myself in other posts. However, a blantantly false statement was made that a "bunker is a bunker" and I was simply trying to explain how that is not the case. Grow the f up!

You're what? Fifteen years old? My "bunker is a bunker" statement is specific to this case, this course, this PGA Championship. You resort to eff-bombs to make a point? Aren't you late for algebra class?

Shocking that you're from Jersey.

[albatross]

It's irrelevant whether patrons are standing in the hazard orwhether they're hovering over the ground with helium shoes. Nothing changes the FACT that a bunker is a bunker.

My argument here has nothing to do with whether or not it was a bunker. It was. My argument is simply that it was unprofessional and unacceptable to allow patrons to stand in a sand trap with a player as he's taking a shot. Bottom line. I don't care if there are 100,000 bunkers on the course. If the area is deemed a hazard, the player should have the opportunity to view the area his ball is in without trying to have his caddy move over 1000 people.

[max power]

And Whistling Straits made it abundantly clear that every bunker was a bunker. What could they have done? Mark ever bunker that is a bunker, or every bunker that is a waste area? The pictures shows that this clearly is a bunker by the state of it.

Yeah-I felt sick for Johnson at the time, but it was his mistake (regrettable, and arguable whether crowd should inhabit a bunker-but he'd been made aware of the rule). Now I feel bad for Kaymer, with all that pressure, confusion, and hoopla he hit an absolutely cold-blooded approach shot to win a Major Championship. I became a fan right there-but his performance has nearly been lost in the melee.

[whatwhatwhat]

Funny, because that's exactly what Whistling Straits did with the local rule allowing players to remove stones in bunkers.

haha spot on, thats exactly what they did

[albatross]

This thread is comical because a lot of people aren't even sure what they are arguing. There are really two arguments going on:

Argument #1 happening in this thread: Was DJ in a bunker? Absolutely, positively. Really can't argue that part.

Argument #2 happening in this thread: Should patrons be allowed to stand in a sand bunker with a player? Absolutely, positively not. Come on people. How can some of you really be arguing that in a PGA MAJOR CHAMPIONSHIP it is acceptable to have people leaving large amounts of trash, trampling, and building sand castles in parts of the course that are in play. Yes, that happened. There were children playing and making sand castles in the bunkers near the eighth green.

How can someone argue point #2? I'm sure someone will but you're wrong if you think this is ok. I TOTALLY realize they are cramped for space for patrons but that doesn't mean it's ok to let them all over those parts of the course. You need to either sell less tickets, or get more officials and volunteers and make sure that this doesn't happen again. Totally ridiculous and a huge fail by the PGA when setting up this course.

So the right call was made under the circumstances but the circumstances were completely ludicrous.

[Jay-Bird]

Argument #2 happening in this thread: Should patrons be allowed to stand in a sand bunker with a player? Absolutely, positively not. Come on people. How can some of you really be arguing that in a PGA MAJOR CHAMPIONSHIP it is acceptable to have people leaving large amounts of trash, trampling, and building sand castles in parts of the course that are in play. Yes, that happened. There were children playing and making sand castles in the bunkers near the eighth green.

Control the crowd? Impossible. Watch any of the British Opens that Nicklaus or Watson played in. The crowds are mobs. You can't control a mob mentality without tear gas or rubber bullets... I'm just sayin'...

The tickets letting people into the events clearly state the rules to be followed by ticket holders. Individuals follow rules, but once a mob decides on a course of action - nobody's going to stop it.

[albatross]

Control the crowd? Impossible. Watch any of the British Opens that Nicklaus or Watson played in. The crowds are mobs. You can't control a mob mentality without tear gas or rubber bullets... I'm just sayin'...

This is a ridiculous argument. We are talking about patrons having access to hazards all week long and then after they have been destroyed still deeming them hazards. I realize they can't change the status of a hazard once the tournament has started but they should have realized that thousand of people would be trampling these hazards and deemed some of them waste bunkers.

[sean_miller]

This is a ridiculous argument. We are talking about patrons having access to hazards all week long and then after they have been destroyed still deeming them hazards. I realize they can't change the status of a hazard once the tournament has started but they should have realized that thousand of people would be trampling these hazards and deemed some of them waste bunkers.

Ironically, he had a nearly perfect lie. Like somebody moved it there, with their shoe. What?

[zeg]

This thread is comical because a lot of people aren't even sure what they are arguing.

and because half of the posts are you either saying the same thing over and over ...

Argument #2 happening in this thread: Should patrons be allowed to stand in a sand bunker with a player? Absolutely, positively not.

You seem to be the main one focusing on this particular argument, and you seem to like to call people "wrong" just because they don't agree with you. DJ could easily have waited and asked the marshals to clear out more space around him, but he didn't.

You seem to have a very unrealistic view of what it's like to be on a golf course while a tournament is going on. They keep the fairways and nearby areas clear, but other than that it's pretty much open for spectators. They don't have armies of marshals watching the tens of thousands of people as they mill around between the concessions and the ropes, etc. When you have a course that has as many bunkers that are *not normally in play* as this one does, people are going to go into them. They're going to have to, or you're going to have to put a marshall at every corner of every bunker anywhere on the grounds. Good luck with that. When someone does hit the ball way back into the crowd, it's going to take a lot of people a lot of effort to clear people out. Since the bunker isn't normally "in play," you can't simply say "they shouldn't have been allowed in," you have to be arguing that they should have been moved out after the ball entered the area. As I said above, had DJ asked for this, he would have gotten it. But he didn't.

This is a ridiculous argument. We are talking about patrons having access to hazards all week long and then after they have been destroyed still deeming them hazards. I realize they can't change the status of a hazard once the tournament has started but they should have realized that thousand of people would be trampling these hazards and deemed some of them waste bunkers.

Deeming them waste bunkers raises even more issues. Furthermore, your argument has nothing to do with the events that occurred. There was no issue whatsoever with poor conditions in the bunker, nobody's ball was affected by an empty bottle in the bunker (which, as a movable obstruction, could be freely removed anyway), etc. You seem to be arguing whatever you can and hoping it sticks, because the only issue here is that DJ didn't notice he was playing out of sand on a bunker-riddled course. There was a major error there, but it wasn't the PGA who made it.

[erniebanks]

After watching this tourney for 4 days, I think the only thing lacking at Wispering Straits is a windmill and clowns head on the 18th green

[albatross]

and because half of the posts are you either saying the same thing over and over ...

You obviously just read the last 20 posts or so and I'm far from the only one who thinks the crowd shouldn't be in the bunker. The rest of your argument is so poor I'm not going to waste time picking it apart. Even at a casual glance you will find many, many people making the same argument I am. DJ made a mistake and was assessed the correct penalty but the circumstances were still ridiculous.

[albatross]

I feel I do have a very realistic view of how things occur at a tournament. Like I said, I have worked and attended quite a few. And in all of my experiences, I've never seen trash and sand castles in the bunkers and I've never seen officials allow patrons to sit on the edge of sand traps that are in play. Have you? This is really the question I'd like you to answer Zeg?

If you are at a course that makes this impossible to control then you shouldn't be playing there. Like the last few posts from others just said. It became circus like.

[Zeph]

I feel I do have a very realistic view of how things occur at a tournament. Like I said, I have worked and attended quite a few. And in all of my experiences, I've never seen trash and sand castles in the bunkers and I've never seen officials allow patrons to sit on the edge of sand traps that are in play. Have you? This is really the question I'd like you to answer Zeg?

Have you ever been to a course with 1200 bunkers?

[albatross]

Have you ever been to a course with 1200 bunkers?

No I haven't and that's exactly my point. Maybe it isn't realistic to have a tournament of this magnitude at a clown course like this if you're going to let the patrons sit and drink beer in one of the 1200 sand traps.

[Zeph]

No I haven't and that's exactly my point. Maybe it isn't realistic to have a tournament of this magnitude at a clown course like this if you're going to let the patrons sit and drink beer in one of the 1200 sand traps.

Again, how does this differ from the crowd stampede trampling down rough?

The fact that the crowd was in the bunker didn't make a difference to the shot DJ was faced with.

[albatross]

Again, how does this differ from the crowd stampede trampling down rough?

There's a clear difference with your example. It did potentially make a difference. If you walk up to trampled down rough, you can ground your club. If you walk up to a hazard and it is surrounded by 1000 people, it might be harder to tell it's a bunker.

Yes, he messed up and should have been penalized. But please answer this. When you look at this bunker WITHOUT all the people around it, do you think he would have walked up there and not realized it was a bunker?

[Chas]

A little birdie just told me that, next time there's any chance of this happening at WS or any other course with such a profusion of "bunkers", officials on the scene are gonna move the idiot gallery far enough away from the action that the player has very good situational awareness - which he needs with scruffy traps like that. Just irresponsible not to do that IMO.

Said birdie also told me that every professional caddy out there has taken note and will be extra vigilant in future lest he contribute to another such fiasco. If in any doubt, consult an official (or advise the player to do so) before your man gets anywhere near the ball. There was plenty of time to do that while poor DJ was pacing around. IMO this is one of the caddy's major responsibillities - protect your player from errors of judgement or oversights, esp. when he's under that kind of stress.

Having said that, it was the correct decision according to the rules, which unfortunately don't give you a waiver due to course mismanagement. Most unfortunate.