PGA Fiasco

[albatross]

I agree he should have asked the rules official. Has anyone mentioned yet that a rules official pro actively warned Rocco Mediate in the U.S. Open playoff against Tiger? He shouted at Rocco "The ball is in play!" Just before Rocco picked up the ball after it was dropped in a drop area. He thought that because the ball dropped out of the area that it was not in play. If Rocco grabs that ball, it's all over. We don't get to see the rest of that great match. But the RO actually shouted at him just before he touched the ball.

I'm not saying that the RO should have warned Dustin, I'm just saying that everyone that is thinks they can't be proactive is very wrong. By the way, John Feinstein played the video of this happening on Golf Central last week when he was stating why he thought the rules official should have at least been up there with the player at such a critical time and should have been more pro-active based on the circumstances.

[Harmonious]

I don't recall the Mediate drop, but sounds like the rules official was right there and was overseeing Mediate's drop. If so, the procedure is for the official to announce to the player that the ball is in play. This verifies to the player that the drop was done within the rules.

But it's a different situation than the PGA, where Johnson didn't ask for assitance.

[zeg]

I'm not saying that the RO should have warned Dustin, I'm just saying that everyone that is thinks they can't be proactive is very wrong. By the way, John Feinstein played the video of this happening on Golf Central last week when he was stating why he thought the rules official should have at least been up there with the player at such a critical time and should have been more pro-active based on the circumstances.

Yeah, Rocco was very lucky that the RO was watching him as he about made the error (though I haven't actually seen it, so I'm just going from what's been said about it in this and related threads). Given that it was a drop situation, it's not too surprising the RO was watching closely---it seems that players are usually very careful to demonstrate that they're following the drop rules, and I imagine the ROs keep a close watch. In this case, unfortunately for Dustin, I think the RO had already asked if he needed anything and as far as I know was busy trying to clear the crowd out. Even had he been watching closely, I think it's unlikely this is a rule you could really do much about other than point out the error after the fact. If you lean over to pick up your ball, that's obviously not normal procedure. If you're setting up for a shot out of the bunker, you typically hover your club inches from where you'd ground it. The odds that anyone would see what DJ was about to do before he touched down were pretty slim... Obviously it'd be nice if something had prevented things from ending as they did.

[iacas]

He shouted at Rocco "The ball is in play!" Just before Rocco picked up the ball after it was dropped in a drop area. He thought that because the ball dropped out of the area that it was not in play. If Rocco grabs that ball, it's all over. We don't get to see the rest of that great match. But the RO actually shouted at him just before he touched the ball.

"The rest of that great match" was about two more shots. Rocco was pretty much toast when he was taking the drop. It was on the 19th and final hole of the day.

And yes, the RO was there for that match. They were the only players on the course and Rocco had an obvious ruling issue. Dustin Johnson's guy thought it was obvious Dustin was in a bunker, asked him if he needed any help, and then went forward to help push the crowd back, which aided Dustin. The situations are not analogous. If the RO had seen Dustin staring at the sand quizzically I'd wager he'd have provided pre-emptive assistance.

I'm just saying that everyone that is thinks they can't be proactive is very wrong.

Nobody's saying they "think" it. It's not an opinion. ROs go by a fairly simple code and it wasn't broken here. It wouldn't have been broken if the RO thought the player needed help and gave it to him, but given how obvious he thought it was that Dustin was in a bunker, he saw no need and simply tried to stay out of the way of the player, which is his first real obligation.

David Price knows a heck of a lot more about being an RO than you or I do, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, particularly since it meshes well with what I've seen ROs do first-hand. And remember, in most events there aren't any walking ROs. They have to be called over. Their job isn't to observe every shot - it's simply to be more readily available if a player needs them. They primarily try to stay out of the way, not shoe-horn themselves into the action.

I don't recall the Mediate drop, but sounds like the rules official was right there and was overseeing Mediate's drop. If so, the procedure is for the official to announce to the player that the ball is in play. This verifies to the player that the drop was done within the rules.

Yep. If DJ had asked Price for a ruling he'd have stuck around as long as necessary. After he said "it's a bunker, don't ground your club" that might be all that was required and he'd go forward to again help with the crowd. DJ didn't aks for a ruling, and Price was under no obligation to provide one pre-emptively.

Would have been nice, and he wishes he had, but not because he screwed up - to prevent Dustin from screwing up. The PGA doesn't want to see someone lose a tournament because they have a brain fart and violate a rule.

If you're setting up for a shot out of the bunker, you typically hover your club inches from where you'd ground it. The odds that anyone would see what DJ was about to do before he touched down were pretty slim... Obviously it'd be nice if something had prevented things from ending as they did.

Well the point albatross is trying to make is that Price could have said "that's a bunker, Dustin, don't ground your club" as Dustin was arriving at his ball, not to do it moments before the infraction actually occurs.

And again, Price says he wishes he had, but not because he failed in his duties, just because it would have avoided all of this mess.

[Zeph]

So, should the ROs follow the players all over the course to point out the rules that the players already know?

"You are on the green, it is not allowed to have the caddy stand behind your line when putting"
"Hi there, you are in a water hazard, make sure you don't remove any loose impediments"
"Your ball is sitting on a severe slope, make sure you don't touch the grass so the ball starts rolling"
"On the tee; Dustin Johnson! Make sure you tee the ball up behind the tee markers"

It's like having the Microsoft Office paper clip following you around all the time, telling you how to use bold or italic letters.

[iacas]

It's like having the Microsoft Office paper clip following you around all the time, telling you how to use

That's hilarious.

And gives me a chance to post this old joke:

[TheGeekGolfer]

The club-grounding penalty has nothing to do with improving your lie. Putting your club in the sand may give you information about the texture and condition of the bunker. It may not, but then in basketball you get your free throws even if you're fouled on a shot that you were never going to make. The rule is as it is to make it enforceable and avoid bickering over how much you can touch the sand before you're probing it: the answer is none at all.

EXACTLY! The rules are cut and dry for a reason, to avoid strange situations and interpretation.

Not only do I disagree that no advantage was gained, I'll point out that the rules are and must eliminate any and all grey areas which include things like "did he gain an advantage?" and "did he intend to do something?"

iacas - +1 - we are in agreement on this point.

You have got to be kidding.

I agree! I played once with a guy that chose to announce to all the other players in the group his current stroke and what he was trying to do, every time. "I'm hitting my 3rd shot now, I'm going to try to hit it to the left portion of the green." It was VERY ANNOYING and DISTRACTING. I never played with him again.

I agree he should have asked the rules official. Has anyone mentioned yet that a rules official pro actively warned Rocco Mediate in the U.S. Open playoff against Tiger? He shouted at Rocco "The ball is in play!" Just before Rocco picked up the ball after it was dropped in a drop area. He thought that because the ball dropped out of the area that it was not in play. If Rocco grabs that ball, it's all over. We don't get to see the rest of that great match. But the RO actually shouted at him just before he touched the ball.

It's A LOT easier to warn someone then they are bending over to pick up a ball, 1) there is a fair amount of time as they reach down to warn them and 2) they are not setting up or in the middle of a shot, so warning them is appropriate. In DJ's situation, the amount of time to 'warn them' is a fraction of a second, "wait, don't ground your club", how is the official supposed to know that he 'might ground his club'? He's also interrupting the shot, which could have caused a different rules infraction, when the player actually wasn't going to ground his club. Sure...he could 'warn him' as he approached his ball, but that's not his job. Enough said!

[albatross]

So, should the ROs follow the players all over the course to point out the rules that the players already know?

LOL. That is awesome.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Why would anyone think the RO has to say something? The job of reminding a player of a possible rules violation belongs to the player's caddy.

[boogielicious]

"Go away Mr. Paper Clip guy, NOBODY LIKES YOU!" - Stewie Griffin