Iron Length/Lie Angle

[lhshurdl3r]

If I had an iron that was +1.5" in length and 3* up, what would that do to the lie angle if I took that 1.5" extension off, plus an additional inch?

[CrazyXGolfer]

If these are the Irons you are fitted for. Then if you are a consistant ball striker, you should miss your shots left of your target.

[leo3]

Changing length will not alter the lie angle.

[lhshurdl3r]

Thanks. I'm watching a set of Mizuno Mx-25/Mp-60 on ebay right now that are +1.5" and 3* up. I can play standard length, but prefer a shorter club and a flatter lie.

edit: But even if the 3* up doesn't change, the club will still lie a little flatter because of the decrease in length, correct? It won't change the club to 2* flat, but it will appear to lie flatter..


wrong?

[bigoak]

  leo3 said:

Changing length will not alter the lie angle.

Oh yes it does.

[lhshurdl3r]

Now I'm a bit confused lol It makes sense that the lie angle would be adjusted if the shaft is shortened. I'm just wondering in this case, if I take off the 1.5" extension that was put into the shaft, as well as maybe another .5" or so... would it balance out the lie angle so it would fit me? Or else I'll be wasting a little bit of money lol

[upah]

I'm lost, why would the lie angle change if the shaft was shorter? Isn't the lie angle the angle between the shaft and the ground at address?

[Joeyvee]

Thast the exact set I was looking for and the exact specs I was fitted for. Thanks for the heads up. I'll be outbidding you now.
hahaha JK. Good luck.

[Shanks A Million]

  upah said:

I'm lost, why would the lie angle change if the shaft was shorter? Isn't the lie angle the angle between the shaft and the ground at address?

Yes, but by your logic, a driver and a lob wedge would have the same lie angle, right? But they don't. Clearly, there's something going on here.

The length of A (hands to ground) we're assuming stays fairly constant, and we're assuming there's no toe down effect. As the club (C) gets longer, the length of B also must get longer. If a Pitching wedge has a 64° lie angle, and a 35.5" length, the butt will be 31.9" off the ground at impact, and the head 15.56" from the butt. Now, if we take a 45" driver, the length of A (hands above the ground) stays the same. Side C is now 45". So, now the hands are still 31.9" off the ground, but the club is 45" long instead of 35.5". The new lie angle must be 45°, and the length of side B is now 31.73" long. Had the club been the same length, it would have been 19° too upright. Now, in practice, the hands at address change. Drivers have lie angles closer to 55°. To answer the original question, assuming your iron was of some standard set, in theory, it would be 6° too upright, but obviously that's not the answer. I imagine clubmakers have a way to measure, but I'm not sure. A lie board is your best bet.

[upah]

Ok, I understand what you're saying, but the lie angle as defined by every source I can find online doesn't change based on the shaft length. The lie angle is defined as the angle between sides B and C of your triangle as determined by the club, not the golfer . The OP wants a shorter club and a flatter lie angle. Making the club shorter will not change the angle created by the sole of the club and the shaft, but rather the dynamic angle of the face (maybe there's a term for this?). Why on earth would anyone play an iron toe up/down? I thought the idea behind changing the lie angle was to properly sole the club?

[zeg]

If you change the shaft length, the lie angle you need to hit with the club correctly will change. But trimming an inch off the end of the shaft doesn't change the lie angle of the club. If you are fit for a club with 3° upright lie angle at stock length, trimming 1.5 inches off a +1.5 3° upright club will give you the correct fit.

In Shanks' picture, we're just changing length c without regard for the effect it has on a or b.

[upah]

I gotcha. Is there terminology for this or am I misusing the term 'lie angle'?

[kennay92]

  leo3 said:

Changing length will not alter the lie angle.

your dumb, shortening the club will take off from the lie angle, so shortening it make it flatter, lengthning it makes it more upright.

[iacas]

  kennay92 said:

your dumb, shortening the club will take off from the lie angle, so shortening it make it flatter, lengthning it makes it more upright.

You have that precisely backwards.

A shorter club has a steeper lie angle and a longer one a flatter angle.

[Red_on_the_head]

  iacas said:

You have that precisely backwards.

I wasn't going to get into the middle of it but... From what I understand, iacas has it right. Now if you just shorten the shaft, the lie angle of the club will not change relative to itself. Relative to the ground the lie angle will change a little when you shorten it. Therefore you need to bend the club a little more upright to have the sole of the club flat to the ground.

[msd3075]

  lhshurdl3r said:

If I had an iron that was +1.5" in length and 3* up, what would that do to the lie angle if I took that 1.5" extension off, plus an additional inch?

If you want to see what lie angle corrensponds to what length, just look up the stock specs of your irons and see what lie angle goes with each length. For example, here is a

link to the specs of my Mizuno irons. If you look at the specs, the lie angle changes 1° degrees for every 1.0" difference in length. Using this, if you were to take 2.5" off of your irons, your lie angle would need to be changed 2.5°. Seeing as you are cutting down your irons, you'd want the lie to be adjusted more upright. This would mean you'd need them bent to 5-6° upright from standard.

[lhshurdl3r]

  msd3075 said:

If you want to see what lie angle corrensponds to what length, just look up the stock specs of your irons and see what lie angle goes with each length. For example, here is a

I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure if it addresses my questions wholely. I may have been a little unclear..

My fitted specs are usually -1", and 2º flat. So with a club that would have been +1.5" and 3º upright from standard... if I chopped off 2.5", it would naturally flatten the lie angle (relative to the ground) 5º. Correct? The irons in question have already been won by another buyer on ebay. I just picked up a set of TM Rac LT's for $125

[msd3075]

  lhshurdl3r said:

I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure if it addresses my questions wholely. I may have been a little unclear..

The actual lie angle of the club won't change; the only way to change it is by bending it. If you were to swap out a +1.0" shaft for a standard length shaft, the lie angle will stay exactly the same for the club itself. What I was talking about in my post was how you'd have to adjust the lie angle to get back to the "3º upright" with a different length.

To answer your question, no, the physical lie angle of the club will not change if you change length.