Leslie King's Teachings...

[$2 Nassau]

Anyone familiar with him? As someone who enjoys reading various approaches/teachings related to the golf swing…I had never heard of him until recently when I stumbled upon his website (link below).

The site consists of 12 “lessons” beginning with setup, grip, etc. Much of it is pretty standard/common it seems. Although what sets Leslie apart IMO is his teachings regarding the left arm role in the swing. He stresses a “free swinging” motion of the arms/hands, particularly the left arm (for righties). His thoughts on how the downswing should be initiated are very interesting. Basically, at the top of the swing after you have made a full turn shoulder turn, the beginning of the downswing should be initiated with a “free swinging” of the arms, while the shoulders remain at their full turn position. He states many golfers in an effort to use the body tend to overuse it- the downswing then begins with all shoulders, with your left arm still attached to your chest. This immediately places your hands to the outside and sets up the outside-to-in hit. Now, when I first read this it seemed like he wanted an armsy swing…but after reading further and trying some of the exercises, what he is teaching is basically to let the arms fall freely from the top for the first 12 inches or so of the downswing, what he calls “separation.” This drops the club on plane, automatically, and then you simply turn through as you normally would. Similar to the teachings of letting gravity initiate the downswing from what I gather. He states the body will them react to the free dropping of the arms, and the hips, knees, shoulder etc will all do their job appropriately. (he does advocate the raising of the left heel on the backswing which I have chose to ignore). http://www.golfpro-online.com/tuition/lking/eleven.html Excerpt:

Now, maintaining the shoulders in the fully turned position, we simply commence the downward swing of the left hand and arm. That is how the downswing starts, and nothing could be simpler! I stress again, the SHOULDERS MUST REMAIN IN THE FULLY TURNED POSITION at the beginning of the downswing!....By keeping the shoulders fully turned the left hand and arm can swing freely from the left shoulder, taking the club-head down into the ball on a club line that will result in a swing into and along the line of flight through impact

[Zeph]

I've heard the "drop arms into the slot, then speed up when they have dropped" before, I've even tried it, but I'm not a fan.

First of all, this means the arms drop, then the body start to unwind and have to catch up with the arms and help create the force of body pivot. That does not sound very efficient to me, relies on a lot of timing. He says you have to drop the club into the slot, but that means you have to do a loop with the hands too far out to begin with. Sounds easier to get the hands and club in the slot right away and just swing from that position. It is true that the upper body can outrace the hands and arms, but I don't think the solution is to drop the arms. I'd rather suggest shortening the backswing if it is too long, or work on speeding up the hands to release accumulator #4, the angle between lead arm and shoulders.

I said in Lesson 2 that the left heel must rise to permit a full body turn in the backswing, and that I built this left heel movement into the swings of my pupils whether they felt the need for it or not. I also said that there was no marked transfer of weight to the right leg in the backswing.

You can probably do some more stuff by lifting the heel, but it is perfectly possible to make a full body rotation without lifting the left heel.

[jamo]

Eh. Forcing yourself to start the downswing with the hands is just asking for an over the top move. This guy can say the hands move, the shoulders don't, as much as he wants, but that's got to be very hard to time right.

I'm cautious about any swing that says "the hips, knees, shoulder etc will all do their job appropriately."

[iacas]

If you look at the swing this way, you could just say that he's just following the standard accumulator release: #4 first, followed by #1, #2, and #3. The fourth accumulator is, after all, the angle between the left arm and, basically, your left clavicle. A proper golf swing has this angle going from 85° or so at setup to 45 or so degrees at the top, then unloading first from the top of the backswing.

I would agree that too many amateurs fail to get their arms down. majorchamp's swing is a good example of this. Zeph, you know what I'm talking about. Too much spinning, not enough "get your arms down, dammit!" :)

On the other hand, his advice seems ripe for misunderstanding, as some of you have already pointed out, and people who try it are likely to want to come down over the top or something.

But I don't necessarily disagree, and I don't think everyone should be so quick to poo-poo the idea.

P.S. I don't like the left heel coming up, I don't agree that you should need to "drop" anything into the slot, instead preferring to simply keep them on the "slot" or the proper plane as much as possible, and so a few other quibbles...

[$2 Nassau]

It's gonna sound like I'm here to defend this guy and his teachings, but I'm not. I'm not invested in this in any way. Some of the comments below are the same thoughts I initially had, but they turned out to be incorrect (my thoughts) as I read more. So I'm just responding with my interpretations, doesn't mean they are 100% correct.

He says you have to drop the club into the slot, but that means you have to do a loop with the hands too far out to begin with. Sounds easier to get the hands and club in the slot right away and just swing from that position.

I think he's saying you do the opposite of a loop. You simply start the downswing by returning the hands from where they came from. No loop. So yeah he's basically saying get your hands in the slot right away...'cause it's easier. To me it sounds like a "pull the butt of the club down" type of thing?... and everyone has mixed feelings on that.

Eh. Forcing yourself to start the downswing with the hands is just asking for an over the top move. This guy can say the hands move, the shoulders don't, as much as he wants, but that's got to be very hard to time right.

Not disagreeing, but as I dug deeper and saw pics/diagrams etc it's not as drastic as it sounds. The exercises were, but I assume the intent was to exaggerate the move when practicing? The shoulders must move obviously but I think he's saying you can't attach your left arm to your shoulder and just spin from there.

The comment about the other body parts moving appropriately was my paraphrasing, but yeah that's basically what he's saying (I think). To Erik's comment about misunderstanding...I did some google searches and many golf forums had some head-scratching going on, much like this thread. Misunderstanding seems to be the theme. But it is difficult to understand exactly what he's trying to say at times. Sometimes I think it's just a long-winded way of saying don't let your body out race your hands/arms. But I'm intrigued, I guess.

[$2 Nassau]

One thing I had difficulty understanding (zeph quoted it- from lesson 2) is that he wants you to lift the left heel yet he doesn't want a marked weight shift to the right side? Tough balancing act there.

[jamo]

One thing I had difficulty understanding (zeph quoted it- from lesson 2) is that he wants you to lift the left heel yet he doesn't want a marked weight shift to the right side? Tough balancing act there.

I would imagine that sometimes the left heel can come up from turning the hips back a certain amount.