To play in nationwide tour

[Bigtank]

  motteler621 said:

do you think you might have a chance to get on tour if you dropped two more strokes? also what is that pro-v protype ball in your sig?

That time has passed for me! I went and played not too long ago with a current tour member, we played a respected tour course from the tips (7400yds). I managed to put together a good round of 68 (-4), said tour player goofed off and had about 5 beers and managed a 62 (-10). The guys that are a true scratch or plus handicap will tell you, the guys on the mini tours are phenomenal golfers, then much better guys on the Nationwide / Euro Tour, and only 15%-20% on the NW tour are good enough to play a few seasons on the PGA....and maybe 1 or 2 a year are capable of going top 50. The guys on the PGA are the best 150 on the planet. So with roughly 6 billion people, do I consider myself a 1 in 400 million player.....answer is simply...Nope.

I have been fortunate enough to a test equipment for the several Equipment R&D; departments. So I have been testing and giving my feed back on the variations of the 2011 Pro-V model. They hit the tour this past week, so I guess they are no longer a prototype, but just the newest model.

[TN94z]

  Paradox said:

You're harping on a point that I used as a slight exaggeration to say what I wanted to say. The guys on the Nationwide Tour are good enough to play on the PGA tour(for the most of them, anyway)...they just haven't gotten there for one reason or another.

Then why aren't they out there? I can agree that the top 25 can play on the tour....but the guys outside the top 25 are outside the top for a reason. Luck, break, bad week at a bad time, etc....doesn't happen week in and week out. You are either good enough to play consistently or you are not. Some guys can deal with those situations and some can't. And that is what makes the difference at the end of the year....if you think otherwise, you are just dreaming.

[Bigtank]

Paradox...

It is one thing to say I had a bad week...My swing was off and I missed out on Q-School. But these tours are a season, and to say that I had a bad 30 tournaments...thats not bad luck or bad breaks, that is lack of skill.

Look at the NW top 25....there are guys that are always there...well every other year anyway. They get their card, then they dont make it on the PGA, then they come back and top 25 the next season and bounce back up to the tour. Micheal Putnam for example...this guy was an All American at Pepperdine, then he struggled with his sponsor exempts, didnt make the tour. Finished in the top 25, moved to the PGA...guess what he is back and in the top 25 (at least he was a few weeks ago, have not checked latley).

Point is, the NW are worlds better than any of us can fathom, but the guys on the PGA top 100 (guys that gold their cards year in and out) are worlds better. I know to say 2 or 3 strokes better sounds like a little to a 15 handicap, but to these guys that is 8-12 strokes over a tournament, which is the difference between living large and missing the cut in most instances.

[luckyluke699]

Here's my 2 cents...

From the little I have gleamed of this info from across the pond here, scratch is s**t. If you're not at least +2 you don't have a chance, and reallistically you really need to be +4 or +5 to have a chance. This talks about amateur golf, so bear with me on this one.

Players currently playing for England as selected by the EGU all have an EGU handicap of between +3 to +5. The selection policy to be considered to be coached by the EGU is summarised below...

"Potential to become a full England International within 2 years and a World Class player, normally having a handicap of +2 or better"

I know that this doesn't directly answer the question, but it stands to reason to me that if you aren't good enough to get to that sort of level as an amateur, you'd never make it as a touring pro.

To add to this, the Scottish Golf Union (so Scotland only, exluding England and the rest of the UK!) ran a study of handicap indeces from competitions a few years ago, and it found the following distribution for Scottish golfers...

Handicap No of Golfers (Scotland only)
-1 424
Sc 257
+1 126
+2 49
+3 14
+4 1
+5 1

...and that's just in Scotland. There's over a thousand scratch amateur golfers in England, and god knows how many in the US and rest of Europe ets, so... "Can you qualify for the nationwide tour being a true scratch golfer?" My opinion, it's a start but you'd better get a LOT better than scratch. I'd imagine...

+4 or maybe +5 on a CONGU handicap on a difficult course minimum. Maybe even lower indeces in the US, due to the fact that the USGA handicapping system is...well better!


Oh, another idea might be to look at courses played on the hooters tour (in the UK we have the "europro" tour, and see the scores the guys are getting on there. Then make comparisons and see if you think you could even come close? If you can't don't quit your day job and play the game to enjoy it... :P

[TN94z]

  Bigtank said:

Paradox...

This is the point I am trying to make.....just stated much better

[kpaulhus]

C'mon guys! I just want to dream lol. I put in the time on the range so I can win my CC's Sunday game and little Club Tournaments. (Finished 3rd in my flight for my First ever tourney this weekend). Tournament golf is a ton of fun. I would love to make it to a mini tour level, but unless I become extremely wealthy and dont have to work a normal job thats just not possible.

[luckyluke699]

  kpaulhus said:

C'mon guys! I just want to dream lol. I put in the time on the range so I can win my CC's Sunday game and little Club Tournaments. (Finished 3rd in my flight for my First ever tourney this weekend). Tournament golf is a ton of fun. I would love to make it to a mini tour level, but unless I become extremely wealthy and dont have to work a normal job thats just not possible.

Not sure about the US, but in the UK the tier 3 tour is the "euro pro" tour, and most importantly you can enter this as an amateur (providing you waive the right to any prize money up front).

Why not see if you could enter some tourney with some pros, which also accepts amateurs? Might cost a few quid but would be great fun!

[TN94z]

  kpaulhus said:

C'mon guys! I just want to dream lol. I put in the time on the range so I can win my CC's Sunday game and little Club Tournaments. (Finished 3rd in my flight for my First ever tourney this weekend). Tournament golf is a ton of fun. I would love to make it to a mini tour level, but unless I become extremely wealthy and dont have to work a normal job thats just not possible.

I hear you!! I would love to just get to a level of being confident enough to go to a qualifier and feel like your good day could get in you in.....I know I will never be on a tour or anything, but playing a qualifier would be a GREAT time to me!!

[kpaulhus]

I played in the pro am for the Winn Dixie Jacksonville Open last week. My pro shot a +1 with us, then ended up finishing up dead last in the tourney. I think he shot an 84 on Friday....

[Nyper]

Just thought I'd tell this quick story...

We had a Monday Nationwide Qualifier at our course this year. The winner shot -10. The worst score to qualify was -5.

Scratch doesn't have a chance...

[Harmonious]

Rather than trying to qualify for some professional tournament, why not just play in a qualifier (or pre-qualifier) for your state amateur, mid-amateur or even the US Open? Same kind of pressure, usually played on good courses, lots of good players. That would answer some of the questions as to whether a professional qualifier is realistic. If you can't qualify for your state amateur, chances are the NW Tour is your next stop.

[Lefty-Golfer]

  Harmonious said:

Rather than trying to qualify for some professional tournament, why not just play in a qualifier (or pre-qualifier) for your state amateur, mid-amateur

because they don't pay...i have a friend who has tried to get to the US open several times, to date he hasn't come close, his HC +1...

[65withatriple]

A scratch golfer could potentially qualify for a Nationwide Tourney. He could potentially be competitive for an event. But there is no chance a zero handicap golfer could compete week in and week out on the Nationwide tour.

Here is a cool story about a guy who went from mini tour to pga tour in a few months. I'm not sure of the exact dates and his exact finishes but I'm sure it would be easy to find.

Jerod Turner played in the Adams Tour at my country club....he won. Remember the Adams tour is one of the smallest pro tours around. A month or so later he Monday Qualified for a Nationwide tournament. He finished well enough to gain entry into the following Nationwide event. I think he finished in the top 10. In the next few tournament he did well enough to finish in the top 25 and get on the PGA tour. This all happened in a few months. He got hot. He played above his abilty for a few months and made it to the show. The guy is a great golfer....much better than scratch but it shows you can get hot for a short time and go a long way. Last I looked he was not doing well on the PGA Tour. Anyway I thought it was pretty cool to see a guy climb that high in a short time.

[Paradox]

  Bigtank said:

Paradox...

Thats kind of what I'm saying, though. Again..the "luck" thing was just to exaggerate the point. The Nationwide guys are beyond just about anyone you've seen at your local course and thought "man that guy is amazing, why is he playing here?!" Thats all I was trying to say. It wasn't to say they just don't make it on the PGA tour because of a bad break..just that those are how big the things are that separate the PGA and Nationwide tour. It isn't a "well this guy isn't able to hit a draw so he can't make it" "That guy just can't putt worth a darn so he can't make it"...Thats all I was saying.

Can we let go of the "if every Nationwide tour player got lucky they'd be on the PGA tour" thing? Even more, lets all stop acting like we're talking bout the guy who finishes dead last all the time on the Nationwide tour in any given year.

[Bigtank]

Yea he was able to stay on the NW tour because he played well for 5 tournaments, winning one...but look at him on the PGA this year, 90k in 22 events. I'm impressed he was able to hold on for that long.