Any cheap tricks to promote inside-square-outside ?

[Gerald]

It might seem strange for a lowcapper to ask for this kind of advise, but I am struggling to gain 25 yds in driving.

I know the problem, I have a natural flat swing in between straight and a baby-fade and I am working on a slight draw with my pro to gain some driving distance.

My natural swing is "heaven" for ironshots towards the flag, but of course a nightmare for distance from the tee and I feel I am not getting to scratch because I am only driving 260-275 yds ....... which is short compared to most players in my hc-range.

My normal swing path is in between inside-square-inside and very slightly outside-slightly open-inside ...... and we are working on inside-square-outside ....... but allthough we tried the hard way, it is a fight against my natural swing ..... so hard to stay focussed on........   hard to fight a 25 years early rotation and at the same time staying behind the ball with a balance towards the heels.

So far we worked on hitting the ball in the upswing instead of with a slight descending blow and we created some room in the backswing to promote coming from the inside when striking the ball, but however I focus on inside-square-outside I about keep going inside-square-inside ......

With the hybrids the new swing works great, but with the driver (and higher swinspeed) it is so difficult to focus on inside-square-outside

Any tricks out here ???

[Stretch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerald

It might seem strange for a lowcapper to ask for this kind of advise, but I am struggling to gain 25 yds in driving.

I know the problem, I have a natural flat swing in between straight and a baby-fade and I am working on a slight draw with my pro to gain some driving distance.

My natural swing is "heaven" for ironshots towards the flag, but of course a nightmare for distance from the tee and I feel I am not getting to scratch because I am only driving 260-275 yds ....... which is short compared to most players in my hc-range.

My normal swing path is in between inside-square-inside and very slightly outside-slightly open-inside ...... and we are working on inside-square-outside ....... but allthough we tried the hard way, it is a fight against my natural swing ..... so hard to stay focussed on........   hard to fight a 25 years early rotation and at the same time staying behind the ball with a balance towards the heels.

So far we worked on hitting the ball in the upswing instead of with a slight descending blow and we created some room in the backswing to promote coming from the inside when striking the ball, but however I focus on inside-square-outside I about keep going inside-square-inside ......

With the hybrids the new swing works great, but with the driver (and higher swinspeed) it is so difficult to focus on inside-square-outside

Any tricks out here ???

I think a couple of your premises are off the mark, Gerald. Personally, I don't believe that 260 - 275 yards is "short" off the tee for five-to-scratch golfers in the first place. If you can hit it 270ish in the fairway -- you can play any normal, recreational course setup. And I don't think shot shape (ie fade versus draw) has that much to do with your ultimate distance, either. The only way you're going to start hitting it significantly further off the tee is to either significantly raise your ball speed (which is hard) or significantly improve your launch conditions. Catching the ball slightly more on the upswing may well be better for you, but it really depends on how you actually hit it now. There's a lot of missing information: What is your club head speed with the driver (I'm guessing 105 - 110 mph), what is your current driver loft, what is your usual trajectory (low/mid/high), do you know your average launch angle and backspin? If you haven't been professionally fitted for a driver, you could very likely gain some extra yardage right there.

Anyway, here are a couple of charts showing Trackman data as food for thought.

[Gerald]

Your comments make sense to me .... and no I haven't been professionally fitted but my friend has a tracking monitor that I use sometimes my driver swingspeed is about 100-105 Mph.

A Trackman to improve smash factor might be very useful ...... but none around here.

Last season I had a few drives that went over 300 yds, but those were the lucky shots, my average is around 250-260 yds and we have some really long par 4's at 450-470 yds from the back tees we normally play....... even a good teeshot leaves me a very long approach, so I now lay up short and try to go up and down mostly at these holes ..... I am good at this (that is where the hc comes from), but if my drives would average 275-300 yds ....... I might hit more greens in regulation.

I have been using a stiffer shaft in my driver, but then I got some problems with open faces. Now that I am working on hitting the ball in the upswing the loft might be getting a problem, it is 10.5* at the moment. My ballflight used to be low and climbing higher ..... must be by the amount of backspin I had from the descending blow, now we focussed on hitting in the upswing I would say the lauch angle has risen quite a bit and the ball is going quite high at the moment ...... the flight is longer now, but the roll is worse. (no actual figures though).

Would a let say 9.5* driver mean a longer flight or would it just mean a lower flight  ..... I would personally feel that it is only a lower flight or am I wrong ?

I tried a R9 Supertri (10.5 / R) a few weeks ago and it was a bit longer, but not that much that I instantly bought it.

[Stretch]

Your club head speed numbers make sense for the distances you mention. I am a bit slower than you (97 - 102 mph) and my usual drives are 235 - 255 yards, with a couple of good pokes out to 260+.

I've attached the trajectory profile from my own driver fitting since it may be of some use to you for conceptual purposes. I ended up with an 11 degree, low/med spin head teamed with a shorter and more tip-flexible shaft than I'd been playing previously. I hit it about 10 - 12 yards further than my previous driver (Ping G15 10.5) and a lot straighter. Every little bit helps, right?

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Stretch

Your club head speed numbers make sense for the distances you mention. I am a bit slower than you (97 - 102 mph) and my usual drives are 235 - 255 yards, with a couple of good pokes out to 260+.

I've attached the trajectory profile from my own driver fitting since it may be of some use to you for conceptual purposes. I ended up with an 11 degree, low/med spin head teamed with a shorter and more tip-flexible shaft than I'd been playing previously. I hit it about 10 - 12 yards further than my previous driver and a lot straighter. Every little bit helps, right? :)

I found the first table interesting (in post #2). I always thought a perfectly level angle of attack was best, but carry distance seems higher for -ve or +ve angles of attack than for level (0).

Perhaps the OP is generally a shorter than he thinks he is. He may claim to hit the 300 yard drive (and even one over 400 last year) but he's also hitting a shortish 2-hybrid and can't seem to hit a 3-wood at all. Yes, we're allowed to use information provided in other threads. It's just data, just like those tables from the internet.

Methinks he should work on hitting the fairway with that standard 240-260 yard drive.

[Stretch]

To be fair, Trackman has studied driver roll quite a bit in order to build the model assumptions in their software and they found players getting between 33 and 50 yards after landing depending on fairway hardness and descent angle. So a guy swinging at 105 mph could certainly carry the odd nicely middled shot 260ish and then roll out to over 300 yards. 400, I ain't touchin'.

[johnthejoiner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerald

It might seem strange for a lowcapper to ask for this kind of advise, but I am struggling to gain 25 yds in driving.

I know the problem, I have a natural flat swing in between straight and a baby-fade and I am working on a slight draw with my pro to gain some driving distance.

My natural swing is "heaven" for ironshots towards the flag, but of course a nightmare for distance from the tee and I feel I am not getting to scratch because I am only driving 260-275 yds ....... which is short compared to most players in my hc-range.

My normal swing path is in between inside-square-inside and very slightly outside-slightly open-inside ...... and we are working on inside-square-outside ....... but allthough we tried the hard way, it is a fight against my natural swing ..... so hard to stay focussed on........   hard to fight a 25 years early rotation and at the same time staying behind the ball with a balance towards the heels.

So far we worked on hitting the ball in the upswing instead of with a slight descending blow and we created some room in the backswing to promote coming from the inside when striking the ball, but however I focus on inside-square-outside I about keep going inside-square-inside ......

With the hybrids the new swing works great, but with the driver (and higher swinspeed) it is so difficult to focus on inside-square-outside

Any tricks out here ???

When im practicing with my driver i use a line of tape on the ground that passes through the ball on the line im wanting the club head to travel, its a great visual for me and it works. I also use a weighted driver and that certainly works

[colin007]

from what ive learned here, a draw doesnt necesarily go farther than a fade.

to hit it father you either need to hit the ball more efficiently (smash factor), or increase your swing speed/ball speed.

[Gerald]

@Sean .....

One of the last year longest was in a longest drive during an 18 hole tournament and was officially measured, being exactly 283 meters (= 309 yds), but I must say that anyone carrying about 245 meter on that hole on the right side lands the ball on a hard grounded downslope and you need to have some luck with having a bounce to the left a bit as anything that goes on down the right side will end up in the rough and isn't counted for the competition as only in the fairway counts. Just as I said above a lot of luck in there and actually I had a lot of problems with pushed tee shots last summer, straight to the right .... One of the guys that came back from the green to his bag asked my buddy if the ball was his second shot, and all he could do was smiling telling him it was my ball off the tee......... uhhhhh fluffed the chip, 3 putt and made a bogey ...... who cares !

Last year we bought a 48" shaft and a 6* head, put it together ..... just for fun, we carried it now and then and couldn't hit it at all, maybe once in every 15 attempts it was possible to make a solid contact ...... a 48" Shaft gives some extra speed, even if you don't go for it anyway with these shaft some of my buddies reach 130 Mph ...... not me more like 115-120 Mph...... if you magage to make a decent contact (once in a while) it really goes lonnnnng.

The 400+ drive was also no joke, no one believed it and untill today I still wonder what happened, but it really went lonnnng and at that hole there is a big hill going downwards at about 250 meters and on the left there is small pavement where a large bell hangs, which needs to be sounded as soon as the group passes ...... that drive went to the left and out of sight ....... I figure it must have hit the pavement, had somekind of strange super bounce and went all the way down the hill. But to be honest we searched for the ball where we expected it to be and we couldn't find it, as it was just for fun round I didn't went back to the tee just dropped a ball where we expected it to have landed...... went on and when we walked on the downslope one of my companions found my first ball, it had my markings so unless one of the guys played a joke ....... it went over 400 yards.......

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by colin007

from what ive learned here, a draw doesnt necesarily go farther than a fade.

to hit it father you either need to hit the ball more efficiently (smash factor), or increase your swing speed/ball speed.

I personally know for sure that my biggest possible improvents might be improving smash factor and decreasing backspin..... easier said then done ;-)

[Gerald]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnthejoiner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerald

It might seem strange for a lowcapper to ask for this kind of advise, but I am struggling to gain 25 yds in driving.

I know the problem, I have a natural flat swing in between straight and a baby-fade and I am working on a slight draw with my pro to gain some driving distance.

My natural swing is "heaven" for ironshots towards the flag, but of course a nightmare for distance from the tee and I feel I am not getting to scratch because I am only driving 260-275 yds ....... which is short compared to most players in my hc-range.

My normal swing path is in between inside-square-inside and very slightly outside-slightly open-inside ...... and we are working on inside-square-outside ....... but allthough we tried the hard way, it is a fight against my natural swing ..... so hard to stay focussed on........   hard to fight a 25 years early rotation and at the same time staying behind the ball with a balance towards the heels.

So far we worked on hitting the ball in the upswing instead of with a slight descending blow and we created some room in the backswing to promote coming from the inside when striking the ball, but however I focus on inside-square-outside I about keep going inside-square-inside ......

With the hybrids the new swing works great, but with the driver (and higher swinspeed) it is so difficult to focus on inside-square-outside

Any tricks out here ???

When im practicing with my driver i use a line of tape on the ground that passes through the ball on the line im wanting the club head to travel, its a great visual for me and it works. I also use a weighted driver and that certainly works

hmm tape ...... good tip, will try !

[Harmonious]

Rather than look for another 25 yards off the tee (wouldn't we all like that?), why not work on your approach shots.  You say you lay up from 200-220 yards.  Learn to hit your hybrids/long irons so that you get more GIR's or at least get closer to the green. Getting down from a 5.8 will not be accomplished by the driver, IMO.  It will be in your short game.

[Gerald]

Well I am improving my scrambling, but I am already at about 45% ...... 5 to 10 % better, will shave off maybe another 2 strokes...... I am sure from 160 yds in for a green in regulation, but you are right the problem is getting a green in regulation from let's say 170 - 220 yds or a par 5 in two ...... I also think that is the difference between 0 and 6 hc. ...... just have to become lethal in those distances.

[JackLee]

If you want to swing inside-out, make it easy.  Use a closed stance.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by JackLee

If you want to swing inside-out, make it easy.  Use a closed stance.

Yepp we all know that, but with even a slightly closed stance it becomes more difficult (at least for me) to hit the ball in the upswing.

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by Gerald

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin007

from what ive learned here, a draw doesnt necesarily go farther than a fade.

to hit it father you either need to hit the ball more efficiently (smash factor), or increase your swing speed/ball speed.

I personally know for sure that my biggest possible improvents might be improving smash factor and decreasing backspin..... easier said then done ;-)

Improving smash factor is quite easily done, actually. Just cut and inch or so off your driver shaft.

As far as spin goes, there is a school of thought that tinkering with spin rates really isn't that productive once you've found the proper driver loft for your swing. Good link below.

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/ballflight/launchOptimize.php

[EverythingGolf]

You have to Increase your hip speed to get more club head speed. The arms can only swing so fast. Imagine a shaft with a propeller on the end of it, if you flick the propeller

with your finger "your arms" it will go a lot slower than if you spin the shaft with your hands "your hips". I have increased my club head speed by 10 MPH in the past year just by increasing my core strength. I go to the golf shows every year and I got to see jason zuback, brian pavlet and bobby wilson to name a few and they all said that club head speed is in the hips.

[Stretch]

with your finger "your arms" it will go a lot slower than if you spin the shaft with your hands "your hips". I have increased my club head speed by 10 MPH in the past year just by increasing my core strength. I go to the golf shows every year and I got to see jason zuback, brian pavlet and bobby wilson to name a few and they all said that club head speed is in the hips.

I'd be interested to hear more specifics about how you went about working on quicker hips, if you have the time to elaborate.