Jump to content
IGNORED

Martin Ayers


Note: This thread is 3782 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Good stuff..it is very powerful.. I tried to tackle the whole mountain..and the mountain won. But I never gave up on it..and I climbed over the mountain,, His move naturally gets you in the "hogan roll". Which comes by keeping his "line of containment theory" .. After all my time with this..I still haven't found "Captain Hook back". Searched everywhere..still no,dice Keep at it..golfer 77..

Like working on the swing,,score means nothing to me. Might just go to the range and give up playing... ( might happen)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Fat bunch of hogwash.-In the video with Elk he says he does it completely opposite but it still works for him. Nonsense, gibberish.-Not as bad as Lee Comeaux or whatever that joker is-But bad. If it "works" for you then youre a sucker. Hardly a "secret"-There are no secrets to golf. And Chris stop talking about "Hogan Roll" as if it's anything more than something Valerie made for Thanksgiving dinner. Just a bunch of BS. You came on this site and alleged all sorts of BS-But youre the biggest spewer of BS around. Blocked.

"The expert golfer has maximum time to make minimal compensations. The poorer player has minimal time to make maximum compensations." - And no, I'm not Mac. Please do not PM me about it. I just think he is a crazy MFer and we could all use a little more crazy sometimes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Hey..here is a news flash for you. A million ways to play this game..whatever makes you happy. Thanks for keeping an open mind to other forms of golf teaching..

Like working on the swing,,score means nothing to me. Might just go to the range and give up playing... ( might happen)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Fat bunch of hogwash.-In the video with Elk he says he does it completely opposite but it still works for him. Nonsense, gibberish.-Not as bad as Lee Comeaux or whatever that joker is-But bad. If it "works" for you then youre a sucker. Hardly a "secret"-There are no secrets to golf.


I agree with you completely that there are no secrets to golf but Ayers' video makes no such claim; it just claims to let you hit the ball with more power than you'd use in your regular swing and it meets that claim perfectly.

(just a point of note: I don't actually use "The Move" as I'm not looking for more power in my swing; I'm actually trying to rein-in power at the moment in favour of more control)

When teaching professionals work with a client one of the biggest "tools" in the box is making them feel a certain sensation or move in the swing. That feeling doesn't necessarily translate into exactly what they're trying to do but it gives them a step toward the correct motion to fix the problem being worked on. We all know the age-old adage of "feel is not real"

The "most powerful move" is just an explanation of the feelings in specific muscles that when tensed up in sequence creates the feeling of having so much stored-up energy that eventually you have to let it go and will do so naturally hitting into the back of the ball.

If I'm honest I play my worst golf ever when I'm "storing" power in my muscles and trying to release it into the ball at the last second, however the feeling of holding onto all this power is bound to keep the right wrist angles, right elbow flex etc in much better shape for longer during the downswing which will naturally improve impact alignments, shaft lean and compression at impact.

I honestly reckon that a good chunk of the "power" in the movement is created by better alignments which are a side-effect of trying to "hold" power and the rest is by actively firing the right arm into the ball.

SWING DNA
Speed [77] Tempo [5] ToeDown [5] KickAngle [6] Release [5] Mizuno JPX EZ 10.5° - Fujikura Orochi Black Eye (with Harrison ShotMaker) Mizuno JPX EZ 3W/3H - Fujikura Orochi Black Eye Mizuno JPX 850 Forged 4i-PW - True Temper XP 115 S300 Mizuno MP R-12 50.06/54.09/58.10 - Dynamic Gold Wedge Flex Mizuno MP A305 [:-P]

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Prove it. You might think it worked for you-But who knows if youre even doing it right. This "move" has gone nowhere since being introduced and Elk and Ayers dont even agree on what it is exactly. [quote name="MiniBlueDragon" url="/t/44523/martin-ayers/36#post_920835"] I agree with you completely that there are no secrets to golf but Ayers' video makes no such claim; it just claims to let you hit the ball with more power than you'd use in your regular swing and it meets that claim perfectly. [/quote]

"The expert golfer has maximum time to make minimal compensations. The poorer player has minimal time to make maximum compensations." - And no, I'm not Mac. Please do not PM me about it. I just think he is a crazy MFer and we could all use a little more crazy sometimes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I'm with Phil.

I mean c'mon, they both (Elk and Ayers) do it totally differently, you can't see it, and it works for everybody (apparently even if we all do it differently)…how is this of any more value to the student than a sack of magic pixie dust that you sprinkle around the tee box before teeing off?

Yours in earnest, Jason.
Call me Ernest, or EJ or Ernie.

PSA - "If you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!"

My Whackin' Sticks: :cleveland: 330cc 2003 Launcher 10.5*  :tmade: RBZ HL 3w  :nickent: 3DX DC 3H, 3DX RC 4H  :callaway: X-22 5-AW  :nike:SV tour 56* SW :mizuno: MP-T11 60* LW :bridgestone: customized TD-03 putter :tmade:Penta TP3   :aimpoint:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator

I agree with you completely that there are no secrets to golf but Ayers' video makes no such claim; it just claims to let you hit the ball with more power than you'd use in your regular swing and it meets that claim perfectly.

This has been addressed, but I'll add my vote to the growing tally of those who say "uhhhhmmmmm????"

When teaching professionals work with a client one of the biggest "tools" in the box is making them feel a certain sensation or move in the swing. That feeling doesn't necessarily translate into exactly what they're trying to do but it gives them a step toward the correct motion to fix the problem being worked on. We all know the age-old adage of "feel is not real."

Here's a truth, too: the same feeling will be interpreted and applied differently by different people. I could be wrong, but there are no universal "feelings" that work for all golfers. I've taught some golfers the same exact thing and they'll have what seem like completely opposite feelings for that very same thing.

The "most powerful move" is just an explanation of the feelings in specific muscles that when tensed up in sequence creates the feeling of having so much stored-up energy that eventually you have to let it go and will do so naturally hitting into the back of the ball.

Language like that makes it sound like a "secret." Again, there likely isn't one "explanation" of any "feeling(s)" that work for everyone. Or even the majority of people.

If there were such feelings, everyone could be taught a good golf swing by simply building up to eight or ten good "feelings" and I could find a different job.

If I go on, I'll probably be seen as piling on, so I'll stop now.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Prove it.

You might think it worked for you-But who knows if youre even doing it right. This "move" has gone nowhere since being introduced and Elk and Ayers dont even agree on what it is exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

I agree with you completely that there are no secrets to golf but Ayers' video makes no such claim; it just claims to let you hit the ball with more power than you'd use in your regular swing and it meets that claim perfectly.


I've not seen contradicting info from the two to know what they think is different so not sure what you mean on that. The only thing I can think is the two separate muscle feelings for an "inner" or "outer" twirl where Elk says he couldn't get the "inner" (flexor muscle) feeling so he started out with the "outer" (extensor muscle) variant to get the hang of how each muscle tenses but once he got it he preferred the "inner" version Ayers also uses.

The difference I found was that when I tried the "inner" my left wrist was slightly cupped at the top whereas the "outer" created a flat or even slightly bowed wrist at the top.

I agree completely regarding not knowing whether it's being done correctly or not and even standing there with Ayers himself he has no way to know for sure if I have the same feelings in a full swing as I do in a practice swing; only I know that. The thing is that's the same as a golfer feeling like their inner thighs are poised but firm, or their weight is on the balls of the feet or as examples; it might feel that way but in reality it may be nothing like it and it's difficult to prove either way.

As I said I don't use it myself and don't really care who does or doesn't; I'm just presenting the info I noticed when I was experimenting with it myself just after it was first released.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

I agree with you completely that there are no secrets to golf but Ayers' video makes no such claim; it just claims to let you hit the ball with more power than you'd use in your regular swing and it meets that claim perfectly.

This has been addressed, but I'll add my vote to the growing tally of those who say "uhhhhmmmmm????"

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

When teaching professionals work with a client one of the biggest "tools" in the box is making them feel a certain sensation or move in the swing. That feeling doesn't necessarily translate into exactly what they're trying to do but it gives them a step toward the correct motion to fix the problem being worked on. We all know the age-old adage of "feel is not real."

Here's a truth, too: the same feeling will be interpreted and applied differently by different people. I could be wrong, but there are no universal "feelings" that work for all golfers. I've taught some golfers the same exact thing and they'll have what seem like completely opposite feelings for that very same thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

The "most powerful move" is just an explanation of the feelings in specific muscles that when tensed up in sequence creates the feeling of having so much stored-up energy that eventually you have to let it go and will do so naturally hitting into the back of the ball.

Language like that makes it sound like a "secret." Again, there likely isn't one "explanation" of any "feeling(s)" that work for everyone. Or even the majority of people.

If there were such feelings, everyone could be taught a good golf swing by simply building up to eight or ten good "feelings" and I could find a different job.

If I go on, I'll probably be seen as piling on, so I'll stop now.


That's it though; one of the key parts in the video is that there's a specific position at the end of the backswing which will vary from person to person but everybody will know where theirs is because anything else won't feel quite right.

Each of them reckons that's the perfect feeling for them to get back to the ball correctly. Whether that's in their mind, completely factual or whatever isn't provable one way or other; it's just their opinion.

For all anybody knows the whole thing is snake oil because it's completely unprovable; I'm just saying that for me during my brief flirt with it there was a marked difference in the amount of 'hit' I put on the ball compared to beforehand.

SWING DNA
Speed [77] Tempo [5] ToeDown [5] KickAngle [6] Release [5] Mizuno JPX EZ 10.5° - Fujikura Orochi Black Eye (with Harrison ShotMaker) Mizuno JPX EZ 3W/3H - Fujikura Orochi Black Eye Mizuno JPX 850 Forged 4i-PW - True Temper XP 115 S300 Mizuno MP R-12 50.06/54.09/58.10 - Dynamic Gold Wedge Flex Mizuno MP A305 [:-P]

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Note: This thread is 3782 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Posts

    • I run tournaments and want to put in a local rule that allows relief from tree roots and rocks that are not loose impediments. We have some really terrible lies in some of our courses in my area and nobody is getting paid enough to break clubs. Let me know if you think the verbage for this rule makes sense. Local Rule Roots and Rocks You may move your ball from a tree root or buried rock one club length for free relief no closer to the hole. However you may not use this rule to get relief from a tree, bush, boulder, or other foliage hindering your swing. Your only option here is to play it as it lies or take an unplayable for a one stroke penalty.
    • Makes sense.  Like I said, I wouldn't have been upset at their original offer either, and based on the fine print it seems like they've held up their end of the deal.  
    • If you've only had to adjust retroactively one time in 8 years and have around 5 people each year without handicaps, that's like 40-50 people total so it sounds like you're doing a pretty good job. I think your questions give enough to go off of. This might be a good way to get new people to actually post a few scores during the 6 weeks leading into the first event. Something like "New members will be eligible for tournament money once they have at least 3 posted rounds in GHIN" or something like that. If they can get 3 rounds in prior to their first event, then they're eligible. If not, they'll soon become eligible after an event or two assuming they play a little bit outside of events.
    • This is a loooooong winded narrative so if you don't like long stories, move on. 😉 Our senior club typically gets about 25 new members each year. We lose about 25 members each year for various reasons (moved to FL/AZ, disabled, dead, too expensive). Of the new members, usually 20 have an active GHIN handicap. About 5 each year do not have a GHIN handicap. When they join our club, we give each member a state association membership that includes GHIN handicapping services. We play a series of handicapped tournaments over the summer. When we sign up a new member who does not have a GHIN handicap, we attempt to give them an estimated index until they have sufficient scores posted to have an actual GHIN index.  Our first event typically is around May 15 so, in theory, a new member has about 6 weeks to post a few scores. Posting season in the Mitten starts April 1. Inevitably, several of the unhandicapped individuals seem  to either not play until the first tournament or can't figure out how to enter scores (hey, they are seniors). That situation then leads to my contacting the new member and asking a series of questions: a. Did you ever have a GHIN handicap? If yes, which State and do you recall what it was? b. Do you have an alternate handicap through a non-GHIN handicap service or a league? c. What do you think your average score was last year (for 9 or 18) d. What was your best score last year? Where did you play and which tee was used? e. What do you consider a very good score for yourself? Based on their responses I attempt to give them an index that makes them competitive in the first couple events BUT does not allow them to win their flight in the first couple events. We don't want the new members to finish last and at the same time, we don't want someone with a "20" playing handicap to win the third flight with a net 57. In the event some new member did shoot a net 57, we also advise everyone that we can and will adjust handicaps retroactively when it is clear to us that a member's handicap does not accurately reflect their potential. We don't like to adjust things retroactively and in the 8 years I have chaired the Handicap Committee, we have only done it once. So here are the questions to the mob: Any ideas how to do this better? Any questions one might ask an unhandicapped individual to better estimate their index/handicap? Would it be reasonable to have a new player play once (or more?) without being eligible to place in the money?
    • Wordle 1,013 4/6 ⬜🟨⬜🟨🟨 ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...