Martin Ayers

[c peterich]

Good stuff..it is very powerful.. I tried to tackle the whole mountain..and the mountain won. But I never gave up on it..and I climbed over the mountain,, His move naturally gets you in the "hogan roll". Which comes by keeping his "line of containment theory" .. After all my time with this..I still haven't found "Captain Hook back". Searched everywhere..still no,dice Keep at it..golfer 77..

[Phil McGleno]

Fat bunch of hogwash.-In the video with Elk he says he does it completely opposite but it still works for him. Nonsense, gibberish.-Not as bad as Lee Comeaux or whatever that joker is-But bad. If it "works" for you then youre a sucker. Hardly a "secret"-There are no secrets to golf. And Chris stop talking about "Hogan Roll" as if it's anything more than something Valerie made for Thanksgiving dinner. Just a bunch of BS. You came on this site and alleged all sorts of BS-But youre the biggest spewer of BS around. Blocked.

[c peterich]

Hey..here is a news flash for you. A million ways to play this game..whatever makes you happy. Thanks for keeping an open mind to other forms of golf teaching..

[MiniBlueDragon]

Fat bunch of hogwash.-In the video with Elk he says he does it completely opposite but it still works for him. Nonsense, gibberish.-Not as bad as Lee Comeaux or whatever that joker is-But bad. If it "works" for you then youre a sucker. Hardly a "secret"-There are no secrets to golf.

I agree with you completely that there are no secrets to golf but Ayers' video makes no such claim; it just claims to let you hit the ball with more power than you'd use in your regular swing and it meets that claim perfectly.

(just a point of note: I don't actually use "The Move" as I'm not looking for more power in my swing; I'm actually trying to rein-in power at the moment in favour of more control)

When teaching professionals work with a client one of the biggest "tools" in the box is making them feel a certain sensation or move in the swing. That feeling doesn't necessarily translate into exactly what they're trying to do but it gives them a step toward the correct motion to fix the problem being worked on. We all know the age-old adage of "feel is not real"

The "most powerful move" is just an explanation of the feelings in specific muscles that when tensed up in sequence creates the feeling of having so much stored-up energy that eventually you have to let it go and will do so naturally hitting into the back of the ball.

If I'm honest I play my worst golf ever when I'm "storing" power in my muscles and trying to release it into the ball at the last second, however the feeling of holding onto all this power is bound to keep the right wrist angles, right elbow flex etc in much better shape for longer during the downswing which will naturally improve impact alignments, shaft lean and compression at impact.

I honestly reckon that a good chunk of the "power" in the movement is created by better alignments which are a side-effect of trying to "hold" power and the rest is by actively firing the right arm into the ball.

[Phil McGleno]

Prove it. You might think it worked for you-But who knows if youre even doing it right. This "move" has gone nowhere since being introduced and Elk and Ayers dont even agree on what it is exactly. [quote name="MiniBlueDragon" url="/t/44523/martin-ayers/36#post_920835"] I agree with you completely that there are no secrets to golf but Ayers' video makes no such claim; it just claims to let you hit the ball with more power than you'd use in your regular swing and it meets that claim perfectly. [/quote]

[Ernest Jones]

I'm with Phil.

I mean c'mon, they both (Elk and Ayers) do it totally differently, you can't see it, and it works for everybody (apparently even if we all do it differently)…how is this of any more value to the student than a sack of magic pixie dust that you sprinkle around the tee box before teeing off?

[iacas]

I agree with you completely that there are no secrets to golf but Ayers' video makes no such claim; it just claims to let you hit the ball with more power than you'd use in your regular swing and it meets that claim perfectly.

This has been addressed, but I'll add my vote to the growing tally of those who say "uhhhhmmmmm????"

When teaching professionals work with a client one of the biggest "tools" in the box is making them feel a certain sensation or move in the swing. That feeling doesn't necessarily translate into exactly what they're trying to do but it gives them a step toward the correct motion to fix the problem being worked on. We all know the age-old adage of "feel is not real."

Here's a truth, too: the same feeling will be interpreted and applied differently by different people. I could be wrong, but there are no universal "feelings" that work for all golfers. I've taught some golfers the same exact thing and they'll have what seem like completely opposite feelings for that very same thing.

The "most powerful move" is just an explanation of the feelings in specific muscles that when tensed up in sequence creates the feeling of having so much stored-up energy that eventually you have to let it go and will do so naturally hitting into the back of the ball.

Language like that makes it sound like a "secret." Again, there likely isn't one "explanation" of any "feeling(s)" that work for everyone. Or even the majority of people.

If there were such feelings, everyone could be taught a good golf swing by simply building up to eight or ten good "feelings" and I could find a different job.

If I go on, I'll probably be seen as piling on, so I'll stop now.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Prove it.

You might think it worked for you-But who knows if youre even doing it right. This "move" has gone nowhere since being introduced and Elk and Ayers dont even agree on what it is exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

I agree with you completely that there are no secrets to golf but Ayers' video makes no such claim; it just claims to let you hit the ball with more power than you'd use in your regular swing and it meets that claim perfectly.

I've not seen contradicting info from the two to know what they think is different so not sure what you mean on that. The only thing I can think is the two separate muscle feelings for an "inner" or "outer" twirl where Elk says he couldn't get the "inner" (flexor muscle) feeling so he started out with the "outer" (extensor muscle) variant to get the hang of how each muscle tenses but once he got it he preferred the "inner" version Ayers also uses.

The difference I found was that when I tried the "inner" my left wrist was slightly cupped at the top whereas the "outer" created a flat or even slightly bowed wrist at the top.

I agree completely regarding not knowing whether it's being done correctly or not and even standing there with Ayers himself he has no way to know for sure if I have the same feelings in a full swing as I do in a practice swing; only I know that. The thing is that's the same as a golfer feeling like their inner thighs are poised but firm, or their weight is on the balls of the feet or as examples; it might feel that way but in reality it may be nothing like it and it's difficult to prove either way.

As I said I don't use it myself and don't really care who does or doesn't; I'm just presenting the info I noticed when I was experimenting with it myself just after it was first released.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

I agree with you completely that there are no secrets to golf but Ayers' video makes no such claim; it just claims to let you hit the ball with more power than you'd use in your regular swing and it meets that claim perfectly.

This has been addressed, but I'll add my vote to the growing tally of those who say "uhhhhmmmmm????"

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

When teaching professionals work with a client one of the biggest "tools" in the box is making them feel a certain sensation or move in the swing. That feeling doesn't necessarily translate into exactly what they're trying to do but it gives them a step toward the correct motion to fix the problem being worked on. We all know the age-old adage of "feel is not real."

Here's a truth, too: the same feeling will be interpreted and applied differently by different people. I could be wrong, but there are no universal "feelings" that work for all golfers. I've taught some golfers the same exact thing and they'll have what seem like completely opposite feelings for that very same thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

The "most powerful move" is just an explanation of the feelings in specific muscles that when tensed up in sequence creates the feeling of having so much stored-up energy that eventually you have to let it go and will do so naturally hitting into the back of the ball.

Language like that makes it sound like a "secret." Again, there likely isn't one "explanation" of any "feeling(s)" that work for everyone. Or even the majority of people.

If there were such feelings, everyone could be taught a good golf swing by simply building up to eight or ten good "feelings" and I could find a different job.

If I go on, I'll probably be seen as piling on, so I'll stop now.

That's it though; one of the key parts in the video is that there's a specific position at the end of the backswing which will vary from person to person but everybody will know where theirs is because anything else won't feel quite right.

Each of them reckons that's the perfect feeling for them to get back to the ball correctly. Whether that's in their mind, completely factual or whatever isn't provable one way or other; it's just their opinion.

For all anybody knows the whole thing is snake oil because it's completely unprovable; I'm just saying that for me during my brief flirt with it there was a marked difference in the amount of 'hit' I put on the ball compared to beforehand.