How much have you improved, and why?

[Harmonious]

Any regular here at the SandTrap is familiar with the heated discussions which are going on regarding different swing theories, particularly Stack & Tilt.  Many folks have stated how much better they are after going to S&T, or whatever swing guru/method they prefer (or maybe no methodology at all).  We see your current handicap as stated, but don't know how far you have come.

I thought it might be interesting to put numbers next to those improvements.  For example, I started working on Jim Hardy's One Plane Swing in about 2007, around the time his first book came out.  Since then, my handicap has gone from about a 4.0 down to my current index of 0.7.  Not that the one plane swing is solely responsible, as putting, short game and more serious practice time factor into it also.

What about everyone else?  When did you start adapting (insert swing method here), what was your handicap then, and what is it now?

Maybe this will shed a little light (and less heat) onto the swing instruction discussions.

[sean_miller]

When I started playing I was working on a course with a 5 index who hit a sweeping powerfade and another buddy who hit the ball pretty much straight and played off 4. I didn't even know what those numbers meant, but they could play. Every day was like getting a scoring lesson.

I got down to a 10 in my third season. Index crept up after college. In ~ 1994 I found a copy of John Jacobs' Practical Golf at the library and made some notes. I went from an 11.0 to an 8.2 by the end of the season.

In 2009 while striping the ball at indoor golf, I decided to take a couple lessons to maintain what was working. 4 video lessons with an instructor who ascribes to no particular method who got me down from about a 10 to 12ish to a solid 7.0 (in the low 6s all summer, then finished at 6.9).

One putting lesson from a random website helped me near the end ot the season and of course I did famliarize myself with the ball flight laws!

[slabm7]

When I was in my younger years golf was more of something to do while you got drunk, Then I shot 105-110 and that was not counting a couple lost balls so probably closer to 120. It was more of who could hit it the longest off the tee than it was score. But a couple years ago I was the best man in my friends wedding and we had to go golfing at 9 am the morning before the wedding, and almost everyone in the group was serious and decent golfers. My first tee shot was the usual banana ball and landed with a huge evergreen between me and the hole. I had 140 yrds left and had to play under this evergreen tree. I pulled my driver to keep it low and took a half swing and ended up putting in on the green and parred the hole. I shot a 43 on the 9 holes and beat a couple of the serious golfers in my group. I figured this sport isn't to hard when your sober and have been hooked ever since. I have since worked on my game and gotten rid of my slice and strike the ball quite well and now shoot anywhere from 80-95. The biggest swing changes that have helped me have been learning proper grip, flat wrist at the top of my backswing, start downswing with hips and shoulders, rotate through the ball, and finish facing the hole.

[TourSpoon]

Just over 20 years ago I was working for a golf apparel company.  The bottom fell out and I decided to go to grad school. I got a job at a course my brother was working at and one where I knew the pros.  We played a lot of golf those 3 years and I went from a teen cap to a mid 5 (spent most of my time at 6 the last year) by playing and taking tips from those guys with a few informal lessons. I graduated and started working and taught a summer golf camp for the next three years. I again bummed tips and lessons from the pros I hung out with and maintained a solid 7 cap.I played regularly in the summers for the next couple of years using all my connections.

Fast forward after an almost 8 year layoff due to having a wonderful family and I find myself trying to play between softball and hockey weekends for about three months straight and can get to playing to an 8.5 with two lessons from a friend that works for a big name (current golf channel pro).  I take off another 18 months or so and now that the kids are in high school, my weekends are free.  I started at a 9 and took quite a few lessons from I guy that really knows his stuff and within 7 months am down to a 5.5 which I have maintained within a tenth or so since.  I am currently playing better than I did back in the day due to the work I have put in since last May.   The lessons were rudimentary at first and addressed things like balance, swing path, proper rotation, follow through etc. and really focused on feeling the swing.  This guy is a feel guy and not marking up a video camera showing me the problem, but having me actually feel the solution, feel the clubhead, and feel the swing.  I find this approach something that I can replicate on the range and on the course and I am more consistent than ever.

I can tell you this, to get down to a 5.5 I had to be serious about learning again.  I am going to go lower this time because I have invested some time into getting the knowledge needed to do so.  Before, I never really cared about the swing, I just wanted to hit the ball.  Now, I want to be able to play my best and make my goals.  My goal was to be in the 5s by the summer and I made it a few months early, so now I want to be in the 4s by July.  My swing is pretty conventional and my guy seems to be a little more rotational  than any of the guys I have worked with before and with me, he stresses the two sides of the body and their role.  I have picked up on one of my keys which is the right wrist having that precious angle allowing for that forward shaft lean.  I am not sure where he got his theory, maybe from the many exclusive clubs he worked at and from playing the mini-tours back in the 70s, but it doesn't matter because he knows his material.

[ghalfaire]

October of last year my index was 24.5.  Today it is 17.6 (as of 3/15/2011).  I think the higher index was in part due to a knee problem that has now been minimized (not gone away however) but the lower index is due to a lot of work on my short game and some less work on my driving to stay in the playing field.  My most improve stat is in missed green saves and # putts per round.

[GaijinGolfer]

2 years ago I was about a 30 handicap.  Today I float around in the 10-15 handicap range.  What helped me improve so much is just studying the mechanics of the golf swing.  I didnt really study any specific dicipline, just in general.

In the past, when I started hitting bad shots I never knew why and just kept on swinging hoping that my swing would straighten itself out.  How, when I hit a bad shot I have an idea of what Im doing wrong and how to fix it.

[Gerald]

I april last year I restarted playing golf after a layoff of about 20 yrs ..... My lowest hc was about 14 in the old days, but I could hit the ball 300 yds plus and I remember playing a 450 yds par 4 with a tap in birdie, with two blasted 4i's to get there ...... but I was a lot in the woods, the water and OB in the good old days.

Last year I decide to pick up golf again and focussed on ballstriking and practice, and I really practiced a terrible lot as my first years goal was to play to a single digit hc. ..... within a few months I went for a 45 club handicap to 12 orso, got the advise from a few lowcappers to focus on GIR and to improve scrambling and putting ........ I really spend days of 500 plus balls, chipping, pitching, sandplay and/or putting and played a 74 (at a par 72 course) and 9-hole scores of 35 and 36 ....... and got the hc to 5.8 ........

I must admit that I have tried some S&T, but without teaching it takes too much to change, allthough I feel there are some S&T elements in my swing.......

Joining this forum ...... also brought me a lot of knowledge !!!

2011 season starting soon, and I have been working on 20-25 yds extra from the tee this winter and got my swing from over the top outside-open-inside to inside-square-inside and I am working very severe to go a little towards inside-square-slightly outside.......

I recently took my first lessons ever (I have always been trying to work out things myself) and my swing was too flat, so I am working on a steeper swing now with a fuller turn and draws start to come ..... I actually was that close, but just not there.......

I changed to another more difficult course at the end of last season and I am playing around 8 - 10 hc. at the moment, but it is still cold and wet .......

Target for 2011 is to get to scratch ........ but if I would get around 2.0-3.0 ......  I would really be satisfied.

[golf4fun12]

I played golf because I worked at a golf course. free golf is always the best golf. I worked for about 2 years and played at least 2 times a week. and hit the range about 3 times a week. I never had an index just cause I was young and didn't care about what I shoot or keeping score. I just wanted to be out there and play. I haven't worked there for a little over 3 years now. and haven't hit a ball since. so when I started again, I couldn't hit the ball if my life depended on it. frustrating stuff. I finished college and decided to take some time off and relax. during the summer I hit the range and course a lot!! I was shooting around 90-95. all I could really do was read up and watch golf tips online and go to the course and practice what I learned. I couldn't take lessons cause that would be 40 dollars for a half hour lesson. practiced my chipping a lot. probably a good 100 chip shots a day. maybe a 100 putts also. i wanted to dial in on my short game. happy I did, cause I improved a lot within a month. I was hitting mid-high 80's. another couple months of dialing down my driver and irons helped get me down to low 80's. the last and worst thing for me was my 3-wood off fairway. I couldn't reach par-5 in 2 cause I was not confident with my 3-wood at all. lay up with a 5 iron and chip on. so, got my 3wood down and now can hit mid to high 70's. a bad round for me now is 82. I had a lot of time. not anymore since I am working now. I have monday and weds off, so I golf both those days every week. which I think are great days to golf. 3.5 hour rounds all day. too long, I know. sorry.

[Zeph]

Started playing golf many years ago, but didn't play a lot the first 3-4 years. In 2008 I started playing more and saw the handicap drop.

2008: 36 to 20

2009: 20 to 17

2010: 17 to 11

2010 is when I seriously started working on my swing, up to that point it was mostly self-taught and picking up random swing tips. I started using Evolvr and working on a S&T swing at that point. That dropped me to 11. I feel today that my swing has lots of potential for improvement. I have come a long way since a year ago, not only in handicap, but most of all having a better understanding of the swing. I know better today what I'm going to work on and how, which is a very comforting feeling. I'd say I did a better job at identifying (with help) my problems and how to fix them, than actually getting them fixed last year. Before this season I know a lot of the things to work on, it's just a matter of getting the job done.

[Chief Broom]

I've read where the average reason people quit playing is failure to improve.  There is not much more frustrating than to spend the time and money on something and not see any improvement because of it.  I'm a lifelong golfer who took a 12 year layoff after getting married.  I got back into the game because my sons became interested in it three years ago and I've been actively playing and striving to improve ever sense.  Before I got married I got my handicap down to a low of 15 playing once or twice a week (entirely self taught).  When I started back for about a year I didn't bother maintaining a handicap but then I discovered using my computer as a means of keeping my stats.  By then I was playing around an 18.  Since then I took a course of 5 lessons from a local pro, but I saw little improvement as a result.  My game has remained on a slow trend of improvment but I see this as more a function of understanding my swing and getting it to produce the ball flight that I want rather than a sucessful application of any one system or methodology (the lessons didn't hurt but I certainly saw no immediate impact or improvement).  Currently my game is charactarized by moments where everything comes together.  I'll put together a nine or a few rounds where I can feel my swing and the confidence that gives me allows me to play the game in what seems to me the way it's supposed to be played, but then just as quickly I'll lose that feel and struggle mightily.  Overall I still have maintained a trend of improvement, but that streakiness is still a constant of my game.  I continue to improve so that gives me hope, but I would like to find some way to even out my game and play overall more at a level I know I'm capable at playing.

[nleary9201]

Hey Chief, I have been ranting about this for a couple weeks.  I think that golf instruction is poor overall. Nobody seems to agree, even on fundamentals. One says, traditional swings, the next says stack & tilt or natural golf or swing the handle. You name it.

[chriskzoo]

In high school I was probably a 12-14 or so - I swear I shot 42 for every 9 hole match - and probably didn't improve that much for a decade (although I didn't really take improving my game all that seriously and fought a consistent fade/slice).

Probably 5 years ago I worked on getting my swing flatter ("laying off" at the top) and got a lot more consistent and started thinking my way around much better and dropped to my current 8.4 without too much work.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by nleary9201

Hey Chief, I have been ranting about this for a couple weeks.  I think that golf instruction is poor overall. Nobody seems to agree, even on fundamentals. One says, traditional swings, the next says stack & tilt or natural golf or swing the handle. You name it.

It should be obvious that there is more than one way to successfully swing a golf club.  That was my reason for starting this thread; hopefully, guys would show that they had found success by being self-taught, S&T, One Plane, or using any other number of influences.  I must say I am surprised that Zeph is the only S&T person to have chimed in.  I would have thought that many more people would have been eager to share their successes.

[Gerald]

Well actually I am not convinced that so many people here are using the S&T method, as it is a bit difficult to adapt for your self from a book and maybe a DVD ...... I have tried to do so last year, but it is difficult and it is (for me) difficult to perform as it is basicly a push draw swing and it is fighting my natural swing..... so I would call my swing more or less a classic swing with some elements of a modern swing and I maybe kept a few things that stayed in trying out the S&T pattern.

I am convinced S&T will work for some, but it is difficult to grow into without a few IRL lessons to support the changes ...... don't know of any S&T teachers in our Region ..... so I stick to the classic swing.

[iacas]

Just a bump.

Originally Posted by nleary9201

Hey Chief, I have been ranting about this for a couple weeks.

You've been ranting about it, yes. It's not been productive.

I was a 3.x a few years ago and now play off scratch.

[Jameshooper]

I've been playing golf on and off for the past 25 years.  I started by just trying to kill the ball with not much of an understanding of the golf swing.  I started to improve as I read a few books about the swing plane, shoulder turn, hit turn etc.....I now have a desire to learn as much as i can about the swing, and what works for me.  I really concentrate on keeping my head still, a good shoulder turn, keep my spine angle, and completing my backswing before starting my downswing.  Don't rush the transition from back swing to down swing.  Don't get quick from the top.  I have found that I need to swing slower and feel the club during the swing and make sure I am in the proper position during the swing.  If I swing under control, I can hit the ball more consistently, and in the direction I want it to go.

[nleary9201]

Erik, Do you teach the stack and tilt method?  If so, doesn't that speak to my argument about the state of golf instruction in general.  My general point is inconsistancey in teaching methods and s&t; certainly different and not "traditional".  I actually think its a good way to swing, but do you instructors and scratch players see how difficult it might be for us hacks to get anywhere when you guys (the golf establishment) keep changing what you tell us to do?

[NEOHMark]

"How much have you improved, and why?"

I just started posting scores to a hdcp 4 yrs ago.  I think at the time I started doing that, I was around a 16.  Joined a league three years ago and that helped tremendously.  Being forced to play every week can probably help anyone.  That said, it wasn't dramatic.  Got down to fluctuating between 13.8 and about 15.  In my first four 'real' rounds this year - all four being good enough to count toward my hdcp - I've squashed that down from a 14.7 to a 13.0, and I'm pretty giddy about the upcoming season.  First, I bought new clubs - Adams V3s - which is probably about 20% of the improvement.  But I really committed offseason to re-structuring my swing to a more 'conventional' swing and got on the email list of Paul Wilson (Swingmachinegolf).  That's the other 80% of the improvement.  His tips have been the "a-HA" moment going off in my head on several items.  I don't think he teaches/preaches anything all that unusual or outside the norm from conventional thinking, but his explanations of how to execute them really clicked with me.

Looking at my oldest nine scores in my current hdcp queue, only two of them are counting toward my hdcp right now and one is a chubby 16.9 index!  The other is a 12.6, so I have PLENTY of opportunity to 'go low' and replace those two with some respectable numbers.  I'm pretty pumped.