Here Come the Athletes

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by mattttt25

Tiger made the sport more popular.  As such, young "athletes" started to look at golf and not just football, baseball, etc.  So sure, maybe that has had an affect on the game and the type of young players we are seeing.

Tiger and others have also shown that physical fitness and weight training does apply to golf, and can possibly make you a better player.  The young "golfers" see this and now include traditional workouts as part of their training regimen.

Every sport has better trained athletes than 15 years ago. The stakes are higher and the knowledge and technology are better. I can't recall hearing of any young athletes who had a shot in another sport yet chose golf because of Tiger Woods. I could be wrong.

[highlander]

I agree that more athletic guys become the defacto standard on tour over the next decade.  But there will always be those exceptions and bad body guys that can just flat out play.  But Im not so sure they have to be huge guys.  My 21 year old kid is 5'9", 175, runs and jumps like a deer, was a good all around athlete and will most likely turn pro late this summer on the egolf tour.  He is very athletic and can absolutely hit it 3 miles. Averages right at 300 off the tee in competition.  (still has a ton of mental work and putting work to do)

But the game of bomb and gouge is not the sole property of 6 foot plus guys.   There are a lot of good athletes smaller than 6 feet- it boils down to god given lag and being able to convert that athleticism into ball striking.  But if you can't putt - your chances on any decent developmental tour- never mind  the big show - aren't real good.

Formula for the future:   Ball speed above 173 off the driver, good wedge player, who can convert some putts and who can handle the mental journey....

ball speed being just a first "athletic" cut.....there are planty of those power guys toiling away in college golf, mini tours etc....

[mck]

Originally Posted by nleary9201

An analogy might be the steroid baseball scandal.  If size didn't have anything to do with power or hitting "something" farther then why did Bonds and Sosa etc. all take em?  Cause they could hit routine pop ups that travels 400ft. thats why!

sticking with baseball, I sort of look at it like how could Pedro Martinez at 5'10" and 170 pounds throw a ball 97 mph?  You just can't make it entirely about being a certian size

[nleary9201]

Where did I make it "entirely" about size?????  I am just talking about a trend, a generalization,  but everyone wants to talk about the exception.  Either you agree with the "trend" toward larger, stronger, more athletic golfers or you think they will stay pretty much the same, or I guess you could also argue they will trend smaller.  I think bigger and stronger.

[jgreen85]

I get your point nleary; I just think most others don't agree w/ the bigger aspect. Being tall doesn't directly yield real advantage in golf. That extra leverage adds maybe 5mph at most which is only 10 yards. You're absolutely right about the trend towards more athletic and more in shape players. That's a fact; even John daly slimmed down. Golf is a game of flexibility and reflexes, so it doesn't help having tight, weak muscles. At the same time you don't want tight, huge muscles. A nice balance is what you're looking for, but flexibility is the most important.

[WUTiger]

Quote:

Gary Player was the first to be a workout guy, relating to golf. Greg Norman soon followed in the 90's, but now it seems everyone wants that edge in the game after tiger came.

One "enabler" of the bigger guys in golf is technology changes of the last 20 years - including custom fitting for golf clubs. Back in the 1960s, a few custom club builders such as Kenneth Smith existed. Only a few rich guys could afford KS or others.

You get into the 1990s, and you get an increase in the types of shafts available and custom lie angles and other technology boosts. In earlier years, really tall PGA pros such as Cary Middlecoff had to play with standard clubs made for the 5-foot-10 guys. You could bend them a little, but that's about it. Middlecoff had to retire in his early 40s because of back injuries caused by playing ill-fitting clubs. (Middlecoff won 40 PGA tour victories, including 2 US Opens and a Masters)

Workouts are a related factor. Note: Hogan was a push-up guy. In Golf My Way , Nicklaus has a chapter on conditioning. He largely did calisthentics (sit-ups, pushups, stretches) and played tennis to keep his legs in shape. He cited out-of-shape legs as the biggest killer of swings in amateur golfers he saw in the pro-ams.

Not sure about the pro tour, but in the 1970s I lifted weights, as did other golfers with a background in HS and college contact sports. One aspect was durability: Get the joints, hands, and back in shape so you won't get hurt chopping out of the rough. Back then, most of us lifted just to stay in shape, and were happy we also got benefits in golf.

Does anyone remember when golf-specific training programs started?

[colin007]

i hope the trend it towards the more athletic type.  or maybe just "in shape".  if i never had to see another fatty on tour like tim herron, john daly, monty, et al it would be fine with me...

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by WUTiger

Quote:

One "enabler" of the bigger guys in golf is technology changes of the last 20 years - including custom fitting for golf clubs. Back in the 1960s, a few custom club builders such as Kenneth Smith existed. Only a few rich guys could afford KS or others.

You get into the 1990s, and you get an increase in the types of shafts available and custom lie angles and other technology boosts. In earlier years, really tall PGA pros such as Cary Middlecoff had to play with standard clubs made for the 5-foot-10 guys. You could bend them a little, but that's about it. Middlecoff had to retire in his early 40s because of back injuries caused by playing ill-fitting clubs. (Middlecoff won 40 PGA tour victories, including 2 US Opens and a Masters)

Workouts are a related factor. Note: Hogan was a push-up guy. In Golf My Way, Nicklaus has a chapter on conditioning. He largely did calisthentics (sit-ups, pushups, stretches) and played tennis to keep his legs in shape. He cited out-of-shape legs as the biggest killer of swings in amateur golfers he saw in the pro-ams.

Not sure about the pro tour, but in the 1970s I lifted weights, as did other golfers with a background in HS and college contact sports. One aspect was durability: Get the joints, hands, and back in shape so you won't get hurt chopping out of the rough. Back then, most of us lifted just to stay in shape, and were happy we also got benefits in golf.

Does anyone remember when golf-specific training programs started?

The 1700s probably, but in the mainstream? Probably in the 1930s then again in the 1980s (Tom Kite, Payne Stewart et al).

Regarding golfers who are overweight (or stocky - either way, not your comment) versus the rail thin guys (Camilo V, DJ, Rickie LaFleur, etc), who cares? I watch golf to see the golf shots, not the physiques.

[ControlJunkie]

Of course, the one downside to this trend is that guys like Tommy Armour III, Angel Cabrera and Miguel Angel Jimenez bring a certain comedic value to the game, and make the jokes incredibly easy. Jimenez looks like he just finished an all-night bender, and still manages to come out and go low.

[Blades4me]

Originally Posted by nleary9201

I think we are on the cusp of a revolution in the game.  I think true athletes will begin to take over the game in the next 10yrs.  Gary Woodland, Johnny Vegas, Dustin Johnson etc are the new prototype.  30 years ago there were virtually no athletes on tour.  Even the "big" guys" were just overweigh guys. Andy Bean etc. But now we are finally seeing more athletic players winning consistently.  I think there will always be room for the 5'8" 150 lb players but they will soon become dinosaurs. If all things are equal and you can hit it 30 or 40 yds farther, you have an advantage.

They were athletes back then also. Sam Snead wanted to be a pro football player and was very good, but got injured. He switched to golf. Hale Irwin went U of C on a football scholarship. Most of the players of old had a athletic back ground and either got injured or washed out and went to golf. It was also considered a old mans game back then. And lets not forget about Gary Player, who was the original one to work out for golf b/c, as he said, "I had to keep up with Arnie & Jack". IMO, the biggest difference from then and now is that the players of today are more complete. It used to be they were either "boomers" or "putters". Jack was probably the most complete, but his short game was his weak point, however when you are that accurate with long, mid irons and putting I can see why he wasn't a really good short game guy.

About 6 or 7 years ago Tiger said, "can you imagine what golf would be like with the talent of ppl like Bo Jackson or Deon Sanders?" Now it is happening. I was watching Gary Woodland this last weekend; I can't remember what hole, but he tee'd off with a 2i and hit it 284 yds! Holy Sh*t, thats a really good drive for me.

In the end though, I do agree that the competition is starting to get pretty feirce on tour. I like to see it.

[Ben]

I see where you're going with this nleary . And yeah, as an aspiring pro I do seem more fit guys rather than large guys. This doesn't however mean that there weren't a fair share of fit guys back in the days (as I see Blades4Me just pointed out) Take a look at any of the guys that dominated. Hogan, Nelson, Palmer, Player, Norman, Miller, to name a few. Those dudes were fit! You'll hear Miller refer to the "flat belly" generation all the time, because its something that's always been around. The young guys coming up on the tour, and the older guys that have longevity in the game, they've always been fit. I'm sure if Camilo, or DJ, or AK, Casey or whomever fall off the good golf wagon they may lose the desire to stay shapely as well. Its a constant cycle of the young guys.