Minimum driving distance to compete professionally.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

A +4 handicap golfer is a +4 wherever he goes.  At an average course of 72.0/130 he would expect to shoot around 69, for example.  At TPC Sawgrass, playing at 76.8/155 from the tips, he would expect to shoot around 73, approximately.   But his handicap would be the same.  His "course handicap"may vary depending on the course's slope, and is used to make for an equitable competition against others, but that doesn't affect his overall handicap.   Just a little clarification, FWIW.

Mark O'Meara said it best when he stated that a scratch club golfer would be an 18 handicapper on tour.

[TourSpoon]

I had a friend that was top ten Canadian Tour in 1992 and later went on to play the PGA Tour/ Nationwide Tour for several events and seasons through 2003.  He came to my home course in 1993 and birdied 7 holes sight unseen.  That was a crazy, awesome day.  The only blemish on his card was on a blind tee shot on the #1 handicap hole that he hit into the water.  He asked me the line and he hit it exactly where I told him to.  The only problem is that I had never seen anyone hit it that far and after a horrible lie from the relief drop and a subsequent double, he ended with 67.  He holed out from inconsistent sand, made putts on bumpy, slow greens, and hit it well over 280 at will ( this was before the ball and driver revolution).  In fact, pre 2000 he averaged 270 off the tee and post 2000 he was over 290.  I can only imagine what he could really do to this course had he played it before.  I have played with scratch, plus, and mini tour hopefuls and no one even held a candle to what this guy could do.  These guys are good and most of us have no idea how good they really are.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

Mark O'Meara said it best when he stated that a scratch club golfer would be an 18 handicapper on tour.

Well, I think that is a little exaggeration, but for sure the courses are way more difficult than what we average Joes play, even when we play from the tips.  The green speeds are much faster and the rough is more penal.

As to whether a scratch player would shoot 90?  Well, that might be a bit much.  If someone would bet me that I couldn't break 90 at Bay Hill as it is set up this week, I'd take the bet.  But I might lose, too.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Well, I think that is a little exaggeration, but for sure the courses are way more difficult than what we average Joes play, even when we play from the tips.  The green speeds are much faster and the rough is more penal.

As to whether a scratch player would shoot 90?  Well, that might be a bit much.  If someone would bet me that I couldn't break 90 at Bay Hill as it is set up this week, I'd take the bet.  But I might lose, too.

Yes, I think he was exaggerating but I have played golf courses the day after a European Tour event and they are brutal. I played my home course the Monday after the 1992 and 1993 Spanish Opens and didn't recognise my own course! From shooting around par normally, breaking 80 suddenly became a challenge.

[Gerald]

Yeppp, just saw the Arnold Palmer invitation and I am not a shortie my self, but 210 yds Par 3 is only a 6i........ I need at least a very well struck 3i or 2i to reach that ....... and I played with a national pro last year at our SSS 134 par 72 last year to see him playing 69 which could as easely been a 66 if he'd had a bit of more "luck" ...... So a real Tour player might hit  a 60-63 at our course on a good day, even when playing from the backtees.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by Gerald

Yeppp, just saw the Arnold Palmer invitation and I am not a shortie my self, but 210 yds Par 3 is only a 6i........ I need at least a very well struck 3i or 2i to reach that .......

Quite often the numbers are deceiving as the pros are hitting their 6 irons quite a few yards short of the pin and rolling it up there. I know that's not always the case, but tour greens are much firmer than my home course's. I'd have to hit a solid 4 or 3 iron and fly it all the way as the greens are so much softer.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Well, I think that is a little exaggeration, but for sure the courses are way more difficult than what we average Joes play, even when we play from the tips.

It is only a slight exaggeration and probably in most cases it would be true.  A legitimate scratch player - who plays par golf on a good course in good conditions - could very easily shoot in the high 80s on some of these courses when they are set up in tournament conditions.

Check out the scores in Q School and "mini Tour" events.  Guys shoot 63 and others shoot 83. You can assume that most sof those guys can play.

You only have to go to PGATour.com and look at the bottom of the leaderboard. There are guys who you have heard of who shoot 80 in almost every tournament.  Those huys would play off +5 at your club. A lot of so-called 12 markers, who maintain their own handicaps but have never tested their game in legitimate competition would not go close to breaking 110 on a serious course.

The other thing is, people who have a figure in their mind of their "average distance" is nowhere near the pros.  IF your best drive is 260 in perfect conditions your typical drive might well be only 200 - which is still not as bad as you think.

Check out the driving distances on this week's Nationwide Tour Event.  Dozens of guys hitting it 330 odd.

Any Aussies out there who have seen The Lakes or NSW in tournament conditions would know what I'm talking about.