Flop shot spin!!

[In the woods]

Over the last month or so, prior to hernia surgery, I was getting pretty good hit a flop shot with an extremely opened up 56 degree(it's all I had at the time). The question is, when opening the face to such an extreme angle for the shot, how do you prevent the massive amounts of side spin I was getting and get more back spin? I can work with side spin but back spin would work so much easier.

[senorchipotle]

you can't. the only way you can hit it that high is to swipe across it, and that will always impart sidespin.

[In the woods]

Well I guess that would explain why I can't do it no matter what crazy angle I stand and swing from!! The side spin is manageable at least.

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by senorchipotle

you can't. the only way you can hit it that high is to swipe across it, and that will always impart sidespin.

This is the nature of that beast...cut spin.

[Zeph]

Don't hit across the ball. You can lean the shaft back some amount without risking blading the ball and swing squarely at the ball with a square clubhead. That'll produce very little sidespin. Sidespin is created when the swing path and clubface angle don't match up.

[weavej2]

I am not sure that back spin is a desired factor on my  flop shots

[In the woods]

The reason I ask about is that the greens I play on are like glass. There is little to no stopping a ball on these things without some sort of backspin. Most of them are at a pretty extreme angle.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by Zeph

Don't hit across the ball. You can lean the shaft back some amount without risking blading the ball and swing squarely at the ball with a square clubhead. That'll produce very little sidespin. Sidespin is created when the swing path and clubface angle don't match up.

You are describing  a standard pitch shot (except for the leaning the shaft back, which I don't recommend).  To hit a very high flop shot, you open the clubface.  As such, you MUST then swing to the left so that the clubface is relatively square to the target (those pesky ball flight laws again).

On a flop shot, it's the angle of descent that keeps the ball from rolling too far, not the spin.  You don't generate as much clubhead speed, thus less spin is imparted on the ball.  Unless you want to take a full swing ala TWoods or Mikelson, but that is a very, very risky shot and not really worth it, in my opinion.  Better to just hit it as high as you are physically capable, and that should do it.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by In the woods

The reason I ask about is that the greens I play on are like glass. There is little to no stopping a ball on these things without some sort of backspin. Most of them are at a pretty extreme angle.

Is this a common shot? Do you often find yourself short sided with the green sloping away? If I were you, I'd work on course management first, then hitting a lower flying knockdown with more backspin (and a hint of draw spin - with a SW or shut faced LW).

Mix it up.

[Zeph]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

You are describing  a standard pitch shot (except for the leaning the shaft back, which I don't recommend).  To hit a very high flop shot, you open the clubface.  As such, you MUST then swing to the left so that the clubface is relatively square to the target (those pesky ball flight laws again).

And a flop shot is really just a pitch shot with more loft added to the club by opening it. If you don't open it, but lean the shaft maybe even back a little, you can hit it high with little sidespin. I've tried hitting it like this and it worked pretty well. Like on any flop shot you usually do it from a fluffy lie, so hitting it with a backwards leaning shaft is not that difficult. I don't hit flop shots all that often, but I haven't encountered excess sidespin as a big issue. You can of course hit it higher by opening the clubface and adding more loft, I'm just saying that you can hit pretty high pitch shots too.

[pound puppy]

My game lives or dies by the high lob/flop shot inside of 60 yards because of the nature of my home course.  I always carry a 60* wedge, and sometimes a 65*, depending on conditions.  I've learned to aim slightly short and to the left of the pin, and let the natural side spin move the ball to the right when it hits.  It takes practice...LOTS OF PRACTICE.  In any given week, I'll  practice my lob/flop shots ten times more that I do drives.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Zeph

And a flop shot is really just a pitch shot with more loft added to the club by opening it. If you don't open it, but lean the shaft maybe even back a little, you can hit it high with little sidespin. I've tried hitting it like this and it worked pretty well. Like on any flop shot you usually do it from a fluffy lie, so hitting it with a backwards leaning shaft is not that difficult. I don't hit flop shots all that often, but I haven't encountered excess sidespin as a big issue. You can of course hit it higher by opening the clubface and adding more loft, I'm just saying that you can hit pretty high pitch shots too.

There aren't too many good players who would advocate that type of approach to hitting a high shot. It requires a specific type of lie and has less room for error. There's a reason that for years the "flop shot" was called the "cut lob".

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by Zeph

And a flop shot is really just a pitch shot with more loft added to the club by opening it. If you don't open it, but lean the shaft maybe even back a little, you can hit it high with little sidespin. I've tried hitting it like this and it worked pretty well. Like on any flop shot you usually do it from a fluffy lie, so hitting it with a backwards leaning shaft is not that difficult. I don't hit flop shots all that often, but I haven't encountered excess sidespin as a big issue. You can of course hit it higher by opening the clubface and adding more loft, I'm just saying that you can hit pretty high pitch shots too.

It doesn't take too much of a mishit with a backward leaning shaft to blade the ball about 125 yards.  I'll let the pros play the ball far forward in their stance, I'll take the safer approach and keep it in the middle.

[Zeph]

I don't dare moving the ball back on a flop shot, greater chance of blading or topping it then. Forward in the stance like on a bunker shot, and release the club under the ball. Weight forward.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Zeph

I don't dare moving the ball back on a flop shot, greater chance of blading or topping it then. Forward in the stance like on a bunker shot, and release the club under the ball. Weight forward.

Whatever gets the job done for you I suppose, but I would never recommend that to anyone unless they were attempting the backward shot Mickelson made famous. Unles the lie was perfect for the shot, I can see this turning into a 100 yard skull shot or an uncontrolable wiff as often as a good one.

[Zeph]

Hitting it with the shaft leaning backwards or the ball in the middle of your stance? I don't play the backwards leaning shaft shot, I just hit a normal flop shot and let it spin a bit sideways. My previous post was about playing the ball from the middle of your stance, which I don't do on flop and pitch shots.

I have played around with flipping so much that the shaft leans backwards at impact and with a fluffy lie it's not difficult, but not something I would try on the course.

[sean_miller]

This - I wouldn't recommend this.

Quote:

release the club under the ball.

It's not as risky as "backward leaning shaft" but still. Weren't you saying you struggle with flipping already? Why do it on pupose unless you've already purged it from every other part of your game? Just asking.

[Zeph]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

It's not as risky as "backward leaning shaft" but still. Weren't you saying you struggle with flipping already? Why do it on pupose unless you've already purged it from every other part of your game? Just asking.

Because I want the bounce to touch the ground first and throwing out the club will add more loft. Not flipping as much as letting the club drop and not drive it forward as on a full shot perhaps. I don't want the club to lean so much forward that I risk the leading edge digging into the ground. It's no problem to let the club go early on a pitch and lob shot, it won't affect my full swing anyways. Don't hit too many of those shots during a round either.

And I don't mean to throw it all away before the ball, but enough to have the club strike the ground behind the ball on an angle where you don't risk the leading edge digging or bouncing it off and blading the ball. I don't try to hold the hinges and drive forward like on a full shot. Little hand movement, lots of club movement, letting it release through after hitting the ball.