"Understanding the Golf Swing" by Manuel De La Torre

[SavvySwede]

20 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Have not read it but great great hall of fame instructor here

external focus

 

9 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

A lot of people write this off saying it's all arms.  That's totally misunderstanding imo.

same with Ernest jones teaching

these types of teaching regularly get the 'internet beatdown' by bunches of hack internet golf keyboard warrior idiots

So you claim to understand a book you haven't read?

[Patch]

I have de la  Torre's book, as well Jones's book. Have had them for several years (decades) too. I still pull them out of moth balls every so often, to remind myself of some of their instructions. 

I would highly recommend them both to anyone who can understand what they read. 

[Jack Watson]

8 hours ago, SavvySwede said:

 

So you claim to understand a book you haven't read?

No,  but I have listened to him describe his teaching.  It's not an arm slap like people think.  

[iacas]

11 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

No,  but I have listened to him describe his teaching.

That does not really qualify.

[Jack Watson]

On 3/16/2017 at 5:34 PM, iacas said:

That does not really qualify.

I've watched several hours of him.  I've read hundreds of postings people who have learned from him have made.  He was consistent in his approach.

I have no reason to believe he wrote a book in which he contradicts himself.

He is a hall of famer for good reason imo.  There is plenty of information available online for anyone who wishes to search.

I will not post a bunch of stuff on him here because of courtesy,  but the point I am trying to make is just that for me here as a real world golfer I have found his approach effective.

His hall of fame resume speaks for itself.  I just doubt that his book is different from his beliefs that he has expressed in the spoken word.  So my review of the book is 'high Quality'.

Pirsig would be proud.  

 

[iacas]

Dude… you didn't read the book. You aren't qualified to review it.

I can't review a band's album without hearing it based only on their other albums.

Hogan was a great player but Five Lessons is over-rated. And I've read it.

[Ernest Jones]

On 2017-03-16 at 9:11 AM, Jack Watson said:

No,  but I have listened to him describe his teaching.  It's not an arm slap like people think.  

The problem with Manuel's book is that many people will read it and become "arm slappers". That's actually a big problem with learning from any book, you really need some external eyes to get you on track. I have no doubt that someone who actually works with him will develope a good swing, but the book on its own is lacking. I find some of his stuff very helpful after having learned more "technical" stuff, but I was definitely stuck in a rut when trying to learn from his book alone. 

His book is all about feel, and feel ain't real. 

[iacas]

55 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

The problem with Manuel's book is that many people will read it and become "arm slappers". That's actually a big problem with learning from any book, you really need some external eyes to get you on track. I have no doubt that someone who actually works with him will develope a good swing, but the book on its own is lacking. I find some of his stuff very helpful after having learned more "technical" stuff, but I was definitely stuck in a rut when trying to learn from his book alone. 

His book is all about feel, and feel ain't real. 

@Jack Watson, this is exactly why having read the actual book you're reviewing is important.

I'd like to welcome you to the site, but please contribute more than just flyby "this book sucks" type commentary, particularly when you haven't read the book. We have lots of swing and instructional threads if that's the area you enjoy, and I'm always up for a good debate.

[WildTurkey]

This book is my GOLF book of choice at the moment.  I have not come across the "arm slapper" stuff as of yet but then I'm currently on page 57.  What I have taken fro the book so far is let your swing come naturally or be a natural movement rather trying to think about hitting specific movements. He is so far working through the basic fundamentals of grip, stance, alignment.  Shame he passed away as I live a hop, skip and jump away from the Milwaukee CC and I never new that a hall of famer was so close. 

[The Recreational Golfer]

As for arms, he said on page 51 he was using a technical definition of an arm, which is the part from the shoulder to the elbow. The part from the elbow to the wrist is the forearm, and that is the arm in his use, or upper arm in common use, that has "...the responsibility for the rest of the motion (forward swing)..." And so on. He didn't mean the entire limb.

[Patch]

I have read this book several times over, and have not turned into an arm slapper, which I suppose is an arms only swing. 

His basic teaching is just swing the the club head, much like Earnest Jones wrote about. Swing the club in a relaxed manner, and let everything else fall into place.

[Epopt]

I have read the book many times. The book is actually a masterpiece, to my pov. It has so many insights and presents his system in the most precise manner imaginable. I don't understand the detractors. 

I share insights from it with players better than myself with low handicaps and more technical approaches (body oriented swings) and they're always stunned by Manuel's insights. 

Not to say it is for everyone. I would suggest people watch the videos. I am a reader and some people are not but I would say it is important to read the book to recommend it. 

I just wish I had met the man. Extraordinary teacher and I am grateful for what he contributed, and to my game. Am much more accurate now and enjoy not being in the woods, wasting time with positions and all kinds of questionable golf advice.

My two cents.

[Wade Patton]

I was of the "normal" swing thoughts and body parts piecemeal analysis all my golfing life, right up until recently.  Three weeks ago my re-building a dormant swing fell apart on me after showing promise for months.

But now I realize it was the most wonderful disaster to ever happen to me on the golf course. The frustration led me to find videos of Manuel, discussions of his teachings, and to buy his book as well as Earnest Jones' book (which I think I had in the 80's but didn't quite "get it").

My conversion has begun. Each session has been better than before as I learn to free up my mind for the important thing, the target and the best route to it. So long as I stay focused on that and have done a proper job of gripping, aligning, and setting up, then my body does the rest automagically. 

It's about the most liberating thing in the world to hit a bad one and start to question why out of habit and human curiosity, but THEN to remember to dismiss it and move on as Manny would tell us. 

I'm not "there" yet but am well on my way. Thanks to Jones and Angel and Manny, and all those who continue to teach and understand their ways. It's good for me and great for Golf.

It's probably easiest to learn as a beginner, but there's hope for us who started down the other path, so long as we're playing. My path has changed and I'm pretty excited about it. 

As Trish says "Keep it in the short grass!" 

She's a teaching pro in FL, an advocate and former student of Manuel. See 815 Tee Time to find her.
 

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Wade Patton
added quote

[pinseekingdreams]

I came across Manuel's teaching through Moe Norman, there's an old vid of Moe talking about the only two teachers he really thinks are teaching good stuff. One of them was Manuel.

There's a good playlist of Manuel doing a clinic and going over his concepts, etc.
 

I quite like his takes and applied them to my own game and shot one of my lowest tournament rounds last year (73).

I did find his swing method lacked power? I just remember I hit a 3 wood at my home course, I hit it literally perfect, but it barely went 200 yards.

That kind of turned me off of Manuel.

I think he does have a lot of really good concepts though and tbh probably one of the better teachers you could dive into.

As far as the book itself, I read it but I couldn't really recall anything from it. Except the part where he talks about how to properly address the ball, and then he went over different flight errors and how to fix them but I can't remember his words. The above video series stuck with me way more than the book ever did.

Edited May 27 by pinseekingdreams

[Wade Patton]

I'm all hickory all the time now. Just finished the second ever hickory tournament at a great course not too far away. It was such a blast I just don't have time for modern gear now. What does that have to do with swinging the club?

Manuel's teachings seem perfect to me. I'm performing better with less struggle every year now.
Also using Manuel's setup I don't rip big divots on every fairway shot. I hardly take a divot at all now--which is much easier on the delicate shafts of wood.  It's also very much easier to pick a ball out of hard sand for a running shot.  I'm playing better golf with less capable clubs because I changed my swing from the body-parts-orientations/movements type of thinking to his "swing the club" and let your body figure it out way of thinking. 

Most folks will never understand this, and that's ok, I know where I'm at, and what it took for me to get here and how much MORE enjoyable my golf is now. Birdies to you all.