The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[LovinItAll]

Originally Posted by Shorty

You can be impressed with the "plan" but that is all.

He is not a 6 handicap.

His plan is an interesting concept but anyone who thinks that he is capable of become better than just a reasonable weekend player knows very little about the game.

Does that make me "angry", as you put it? How can you possibly think that this guy has a chance to make it on the PGA Tour?

I absolutely believe his HC is legit - he has too many people watching him to fudge, including all the members at the club that's giving him a free ride. To out and out call him a liar suggests you haven't read much about his 'plan'.

IMO, his 6.1 (BTW, he's a 5.9 now on his home track. Look him up on GHIN - he's from Oregon) is already much better than a 'reasonable weekend player', and I think he'd spank the majority of players on this site. By all accounts, he's dedicated, honest, and giving it his best effort.

Re: His stated mission of becoming a tour pro - You should watch some of his videos. I think his view of his chances are very realistic....he doesn't know and I think he thinks it's a real longshot. I think it's virtually impossible, but that's not the point. He wants to see if 10,000 hours will really make one an expert. I think it will, as long as you toss scratch golfers into the 'expert' group. Not really a stretch, as the percentage of golfers who are scratch is miniscule.

The thing is that PGA tour pros are well beyond 'expert' status. They are the elite of the elite - the top 125 golf professional on the planet. Even if you throw in the Buy.com tour, I don't think Dan will ever tee it up in a pro event unless he gets a sponsor's exemption, which is likely to happen if he gets to scratch due to the publicity he receives.

By all accounts, Dan is doing what many of us would love to try. For that, he earns my respect regardless of the ultimate outcome.

Sean_Miller: As I mentioned above, he has a lot of people watching him. I know the internet (and even this site) is full of 'I'm Going To Be A Pro!' blogs and such, but Dan is the only person I've seen that has a decent historical trail to document his progress. He's committed enough to have left Oregon in the winter to go to Georgia so he could play golf. He got a free ride to a club there, too.

[LovinItAll]

Oh, and one other thing:

- He played his first tournament round in April and shot 82 (played to a 10 HC). As if folks don't get nervous enough playing in tournaments, he had a camera crew recording every shot. I'm not sure I'd want to bet that I'd shoot within two shots of my handicap (I think he was an 8 at the time) in a tournament being followed by a bunch of strangers with cameras.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty

You can be impressed with the "plan" but that is all.

He is not a 6 handicap.

His plan is an interesting concept but anyone who thinks that he is capable of become better than just a reasonable weekend player knows very little about the game.

Does that make me "angry", as you put it? How can you possibly think that this guy has a chance to make it on the PGA Tour?

Sean_Miller: As I mentioned above, he has a lot of people watching him. I know the internet (and even this site) is full of 'I'm Going To Be A Pro!' blogs and such, but Dan is the only person I've seen that has a decent historical trail to document his progress. He's committed enough to have left Oregon in the winter to go to Georgia so he could play golf. He got a free ride to a club there, too.

Are you singling me out because I had the balls to ask a direct question on Dan's website and nudged someone who knows him to get an answer?

Based on his bunker lesson, I'd say Dan's progressing well - better than I'd expected and better than 99% of thesandtrap.com regular posters. But in spite of the wall of stats, I didn't see his GHIN. I'm not even sure how I'd access that.

Not sure an 82 on a 5500 yard course is a 10 differential, but like I alluded to earlier, I'm not overly familiar with GHIN.

[LovinItAll]

Are you singling me out because I had the balls to ask a direct question on Dan's website and nudged someone who knows him to get an answer? Based on his bunker lesson, I'd say Dan's progressing well - better than I'd expected and better than 99% of thesandtrap.com regular posters. But in spite of the wall of stats, I didn't see his GHIN. I'm not even sure how I'd access that. Not sure an 82 on a 5500 yard course is a 10 differential, but like I alluded to earlier, I'm not overly familiar with GHIN.

Ghin.com name: McLaughlin State: Oregon Ghin calculated the 10 handicap for the tourney. Course = 69.8/136.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

Oh, and one other thing:

- He played his first tournament round in April and shot 82 (played to a 10 HC). As if folks don't get nervous enough playing in tournaments, he had a camera crew recording every shot. I'm not sure I'd want to bet that I'd shoot within two shots of my handicap (I think he was an 8 at the time) in a tournament being followed by a bunch of strangers with cameras.

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Are you singling me out because I had the balls to ask a direct question on Dan's website and nudged someone who knows him to get an answer?

Based on his bunker lesson, I'd say Dan's progressing well - better than I'd expected and better than 99% of thesandtrap.com regular posters. But in spite of the wall of stats, I didn't see his GHIN. I'm not even sure how I'd access that.

Not sure an 82 on a 5500 yard course is a 10 differential, but like I alluded to earlier, I'm not overly familiar with GHIN.

Ghin.com name: McLaughlin State: Oregon

Ghin calculated the 10 handicap for the tourney. Course = 69.8/136.

Great - thank you!!

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Quote:

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

Oh, and one other thing:

- He played his first tournament round in April and shot 82 (played to a 10 HC). As if folks don't get nervous enough playing in tournaments, he had a camera crew recording every shot. I'm not sure I'd want to bet that I'd shoot within two shots of my handicap (I think he was an 8 at the time) in a tournament being followed by a bunch of strangers with cameras.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Are you singling me out because I had the balls to ask a direct question on Dan's website and nudged someone who knows him to get an answer?

Based on his bunker lesson, I'd say Dan's progressing well - better than I'd expected and better than 99% of thesandtrap.com regular posters. But in spite of the wall of stats, I didn't see his GHIN. I'm not even sure how I'd access that.

Not sure an 82 on a 5500 yard course is a 10 differential, but like I alluded to earlier, I'm not overly familiar with GHIN.

Ghin.com name: McLaughlin State: Oregon

Ghin calculated the 10 handicap for the tourney. Course = 69.8/136.

Great - thank you!!

PS. I guess what I was saying is that after watching his progress during a lesson on bunker play, I have a new opinion of his potential. Whether or not he'll get to scratch I don't know, but he eventually looked like a veteran hitting that high soft shot. Kudos Dan.

[TJBam]

Major respect to this guy, think what he is doing is awesome.  Would love to see him beat the odds and succeed.  What a story!!  Good for months worth of coverage. TGC is creaming themselves hoping to see this guy on the web.com....

[LovinItAll]

PS. I guess what I was saying is that after watching his progress during a lesson on bunker play, I have a new opinion of his potential. Whether or not he'll get to scratch I don't know, but he eventually looked like a veteran hitting that high soft shot. Kudos Dan.

I had a different opinion of his 'mission' until I watched a few of his interviews and listened to the people who are coaching/helping him or whatever. As it turns out, he's never said, 'I think I'll be a PGA tour pro after 10,000 hours', but rather 'I want to test the 10,000 theory and see where it takes me. I chose golf because I had zero experience, so it seemed like the perfect test.' Like you pointed out, it doesn't seem like he was an athlete when he was younger (could be wrong), but the theory that Gladwell cited in his book takes that into account, basically saying (I paraphrase), 'There are no exceptions to the 10,000 hour rule. If one puts 10,000 hours of dedicated practice into anything, they will become an expert.' Again, I think 'expert' within the context of golf doesn't necessarily mean tour pro, as there are only 125 fully exempt PGA players plus the pros on the buy.com tour. Throw in the minor tours around the world and there are (I'm guessing) less than a thousand guys that cash checks regularly by playing tournament golf. There are an estimated 30 million golfers in the U.S. alone, so we're talking about only .001% of American golfs who are also tour pros cash checks. I think being in the 99.99th percentile would qualify as 'expert' personally, but that's still a long way from playing pro golf for a living (or from EVER cashing a check). Hard not to pull for the guy, though. He's putting in the time and seems like a decent human. If nothing else, I hope he gets good enough to grab a sponsor's exemption or two. He's certainly getting the press to make that a possibility. I'd be pretty jazzed if that ever happened to me. How many dudes around scratch who happen to be in their 40's have you run into that believe the delusion that if they had time, they could practice and get good enough to play on the Champion's tour? I've run into a couple, and I think there's virtually zero chance they could make that happen. I've played with Tim Jackson and Danny Green, both very good amateurs, and they've won the Mid-Am. When each said, 'I'd have to get A LOT better/more consistent to have any chance to compete on the Senior Tour' right after they'd just laid a 65 on me, it gave me a little perspective, you know? They're both +3's or better, and I think they have a pretty clear idea of what it would really take (and that's to play with the old guys...haha). Anyway, that's just my take.

[x129]

Dan has been quoted several times saying he would be a PGA tour pro. Heck he has even said that he would win on tour and then retire to do something else. Here is what a quick google comes up with with those quotes.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/dan-mclaughlins-10000hour-plan-become-a-*********er-11232011.html

If Dan had just said I am going to play golf for 10k hours and see how good I get, there wouldn't be as much back lash. The delusion that 10k hours of practice is the only thing that is different between us and pga pros bothers a lot of people. Some (college guys and minitour guys) have put in those 10k hours and are not really close to be pros. Of course if Dan said that his documentary wouldn't have the same narrative and he wouldn't be getting anywhere near the press he does. Some people are turned off by good marketing. Others appreciate it.

The champions tour is harder to qualify for than the normal PGA tour.  Nobody wants no names on it. You want the guys that were winning majors and have a fan base.

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

I had a different opinion of his 'mission' until I watched a few of his interviews and listened to the people who are coaching/helping him or whatever.

As it turns out, he's never said, 'I think I'll be a PGA tour pro after 10,000 hours', but rather 'I want to test the 10,000 theory and see where it takes me. I chose golf because I had zero experience, so it seemed like the perfect test.'

Like you pointed out, it doesn't seem like he was an athlete when he was younger (could be wrong), but the theory that Gladwell cited in his book takes that into account, basically saying (I paraphrase), 'There are no exceptions to the 10,000 hour rule. If one puts 10,000 hours of dedicated practice into anything, they will become an expert.'

Again, I think 'expert' within the context of golf doesn't necessarily mean tour pro, as there are only 125 fully exempt PGA players plus the pros on the buy.com tour. Throw in the minor tours around the world and there are (I'm guessing) less than a thousand guys that cash checks regularly by playing tournament golf.

There are an estimated 30 million golfers in the U.S. alone, so we're talking about only .001% of American golfs who are also tour pros cash checks. I think being in the 99.99th percentile would qualify as 'expert' personally, but that's still a long way from playing pro golf for a living (or from EVER cashing a check).

Hard not to pull for the guy, though. He's putting in the time and seems like a decent human. If nothing else, I hope he gets good enough to grab a sponsor's exemption or two. He's certainly getting the press to make that a possibility. I'd be pretty jazzed if that ever happened to me.

How many dudes around scratch who happen to be in their 40's have you run into that believe the delusion that if they had time, they could practice and get good enough to play on the Champion's tour? I've run into a couple, and I think there's virtually zero chance they could make that happen. I've played with Tim Jackson and Danny Green, both very good amateurs, and they've won the Mid-Am. When each said, 'I'd have to get A LOT better/more consistent to have any chance to compete on the Senior Tour' right after they'd just laid a 65 on me, it gave me a little perspective, you know? They're both +3's or better, and I think they have a pretty clear idea of what it would really take (and that's to play with the old guys...haha).

Anyway, that's just my take.

[LovinItAll]

Dan has been quoted several times saying he would be a PGA tour pro. Heck he has even said that he would win on tour and then retire to do something else. Here is what a quick google comes up with with those quotes. [URL=http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/dan-mclaughlins-10000hour-plan-become-a-*********er-11232011.html]http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/dan-mclaughlins-10000hour-plan-become-a-*********er-11232011.html[/URL] If Dan had just said I am going to play golf for 10k hours and see how good I get, there wouldn't be as much back lash. The delusion that 10k hours of practice is the only thing that is different between us and pga pros bothers a lot of people. Some (college guys and minitour guys) have put in those 10k hours and are not really close to be pros. Of course if Dan said that his documentary wouldn't have the same narrative and he wouldn't be getting anywhere near the press he does. Some people are turned off by good marketing. Others appreciate it. The champions tour is harder to qualify for than the normal PGA tour.  Nobody wants no names on it. You want the guys that were winning majors and have a fan base.

The Businessweek article you cited doesn't contain a quote from Dan, it contains a statement by the author that may or may not have come from Dan. Like I said, it wasn't until I listened to the words that came out of his mouth that I changed my perspective regarding his often misrepresented goal. Maybe you should take more time than a 'quick Google' before representing someone's opinion as fact. Or not...it doesn't really matter to me. Nowhere that I've seen has Dan ever said that he thinks 10,000 hours of practice will turn him into a PGA tour pro. Happy to read/hear it if you can find it. His website has direct quotes from him, but they don't say what you're representing. Yes, I'm aware that the Champion's Tour is almost a closed shop, but one can play their way onto it.

[LovinItAll]

For example, here's a direct quote: "One can build the skill set necessary to be on the Tour, but not be able to cut it pressure wise. With all of the variables it is hard to say what will happen, and the only thing one can do is to work hard and get the chance to give it a shot." He's said that and many other things over and again, but he hasn't said, "I'm going to be on tour and I expect to win."

[x129]

I am sure the businessweek person just made up the idea of quitting golf after winning one event.  And the http://thedanplan.com/theplan.php why section says he will be a pga pro was also done without any input from him. Along with all those blog posts were ghost written.

I am supporter. He isn't going to be a pga pro. But it is still a fun project and should make a fun video to watch if the production is done properly.

Quote:

The Businessweek article you cited doesn't contain a quote from Dan, it contains a statement by the author that may or may not have come from Dan. Like I said, it wasn't until I listened to the words that came out of his mouth that I changed my perspective regarding his often misrepresented goal. Maybe you should take more time than a 'quick Google' before representing someone's opinion as fact. Or not...it doesn't really matter to me.

Nowhere that I've seen has Dan ever said that he thinks 10,000 hours of practice will turn him into a PGA tour pro. Happy to read/hear it if you can find it. His website has direct quotes from him, but they don't say what you're representing.

Yes, I'm aware that the Champion's Tour is almost a closed shop, but one can play their way onto it.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by x129

I am sure the businessweek person just made up the idea of quitting golf after winning one event.  And the http://thedanplan.com/theplan.php why section says he will be a pga pro was also done without any input from him. Along with all those blog posts were ghost written.

I am supporter. He isn't going to be a pga pro. But it is still a fun project and should make a fun video to watch if the production is done properly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

The Businessweek article you cited doesn't contain a quote from Dan, it contains a statement by the author that may or may not have come from Dan. Like I said, it wasn't until I listened to the words that came out of his mouth that I changed my perspective regarding his often misrepresented goal. Maybe you should take more time than a 'quick Google' before representing someone's opinion as fact. Or not...it doesn't really matter to me.

Nowhere that I've seen has Dan ever said that he thinks 10,000 hours of practice will turn him into a PGA tour pro. Happy to read/hear it if you can find it. His website has direct quotes from him, but they don't say what you're representing.

Yes, I'm aware that the Champion's Tour is almost a closed shop, but one can play their way onto it.

To be honest, he could probably be very very close to becoming a PGA pro. That's a million miles away from playing on the PGA Tour though, right?

[LovinItAll]

I am sure the businessweek person just made up the idea of quitting golf after winning one event.  And the [URL=http://thedanplan.com/theplan.php]http://thedanplan.com/theplan.php[/URL] why section says he will be a pga pro was also done without any input from him. Along with all those blog posts were ghost written.

It's beginning to split hairs, but the 'Why' section says: "On April 5th, 2010, Dan quit his day job as a commercial photographer and began The Dan Plan. Logging in 30-plus hours a week he will hit the 10,000 hour milestone by October of 2016. During this time, Dan plans to develop his skills through deliberate practice, eventually winning amateur events and obtaining his PGA Tour card through a successful appearance in the PGA Tour’s Qualifying School, or “Q-School" That's the goal, of course, but a further quote: "Though his isn't an easy endeavor, and quite possibly impossible, if it inspires even one person to quit their day job and find happiness with their own plan, then TheDanPlan was a success." I think people get bent out of shape because they think Dan thinks, "Oh, this is easy. Just put your time in and you, too, can start cashing in on tour." Golfers know it's an incredibly hard game, and it isn't like many other pursuits where there are many opportunities if one can only acquire the skill. Imagine if he put in 10,000 hours welding, for example. He'd be a master welder and would have no problem finding decent work. I guess I'm saying that I don't think he's delusional at all. I think he's got the fortitude to give it a shot and see what happens, and to do it in a way that's never been documented. To me, THAT takes balls. Apparently he's willing to live like a peasant on his savings while he tries. I mean, the guy is in his thirties, had a successful career, saved a hundred grand, and now he's giving this a shot. It impresses me. Sean_Miller: I agree with you. From a skill perspective, he could acquire the tools to 'hit it like a pro', but like you said, that's not necessarily even close to being a pro. Even with Q-School no longer being a direct avenue to the PGA Tour, I doubt Dan crawled into the fetal position and cried when the change was announced. I think he'll get good enough to submit his entry into Q-School and then he'll experience one tough grind. Will he secure a spot on the Buy.com tour? If he does, his project will have been a success in my eyes. There are other things that can happen that would also make the project a success. We'll have to see. The bottom line is this: He read a theory and decided to test it. He isn't cocky (I think the people that give him heat think he is, and that's the biggest misrepresentation), he just wants to see how close to reality the theory really is with golf. If you read Gladwell's book, he spends some time writing about the Beatles. I'm an amateur musician. If i spent 10,000 focused hours playing guitar or piano, I would be approaching virtuoso. I probably have 6,000 hours on both instruments and can play pretty well. After 10,000 hours of practice like Dan is putting in? Man, I could REALLY play then. On a side note, his handicap is falling like a stone. He's dropped three HC points in three months (around 8.9 to 5.9). We know that rapid progress is unlikely to continue, but for someone who plays every day year around, that's a big drop.

[bunkerputt]

I was a little skeptical at first, but this guy's earning some of my respect.  Still don't think he'll be able to compete as a pro, but he's got a pretty good work ethic.  Rich Beem couldn't compete as a pro at one time either.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

I was a little skeptical at first, but this guy's earning some of my respect.  Still don't think he'll be able to compete as a pro, but he's got a pretty good work ethic.  Rich Beem couldn't compete as a pro at one time either.

You don't have to play in tournaments to earn a living as a golf professional. He's perhaps taking a different route to becoming a PGA teaching professional. He might be someone worth having on staff just because of his internet presence and notoriety.

[LovinItAll]

He might be someone worth having on staff just because of his internet presence and notoriety.

And because, perhaps, that after 10,000 hours, he might also be a very, very good player. It'll be interesting to see what happens if he completes his mission. To the people that think Dan thinks he'll be a PGA touring pro, here's a direct quote from a Men's Journal article that, I think, better shows Dan's expectations: "“Every day it’s a little more possible,” McLaughlin says of the Tour. “When I started, there was a zero percent chance, and now I’m up to maybe 1.3 percent. But that’s astronomically higher than zero. At the end of the year, I could be up to a three percent chance.”

[x129]

You are quoting 2012. Go back and read what was said in 2010 when the project started. He has toned it done a lot since then. Is that reality setting in or did he always believe that but figure it hurt is marketing? Only he knows.

I respect him a lot for doing this and as I said I expect him to be a real good player (right around 0+-3). But that isn't close to being world class. The whole 10k hours things suffers from survivor bias. The ones that make it that far have gotten enough rewards along the way to continue. In some activities the failure of the 10k rule is a lot more obvious. For example if Dan tried to be a marathoner runner or a sprinter, he would be clear in 2 years how much physical talent matters.  At the other end trying to be a world class chess person would have the same results.

As has been discussed earlier, Dan is heading into the part where all the easy improvement is gone. When he was a 12 he had looking forward to adding the driver (and another 6 months of long game practice to fix his horrid long game) to drop his score a lot. Now he is creeping up to a almost a year with a full bag and having put in !1000 hours of long game work to go with the ~2000 of putting & short game. He hasn't posted the stats in a while comparing the different parts of his game but it would be interesting to see how much better his putting has gotten over the past year. Is he still improving (he was like at a 2 at one point) or is all the handicap improvement a result of becoming a decent ball striker?

It is a fun project to watch. Is it worth 5 years of someones life? Thats up to the person.

Quote:

And because, perhaps, that after 10,000 hours, he might also be a very, very good player. It'll be interesting to see what happens if he completes his mission.

To the people that think Dan thinks he'll be a PGA touring pro, here's a direct quote from a Men's Journal article that, I think, better shows Dan's expectations:

"“Every day it’s a little more possible,” McLaughlin says of the Tour. “When I started, there was a zero percent chance, and now I’m up to maybe 1.3 percent. But that’s astronomically higher than zero. At the end of the year, I could be up to a three percent chance.”