Question to golfers for an application

[Dreller]

Hi everyones,

I would like to start a thread about an interesting question:

Do you use the Handicap value printed on scorecards for each holes ?

By example, for some golf courses, for each holes there is a Handicap value:

HOLE 1, PAR 3, HCP 4

HOLE 2, PAR 4, HCP 8

I'm creating an application for android devices, and I'm questionning pro and amateurs golfers to know what they really use on a scorecard.

Thanks!

[ThominOH]

I ignore the handicap posted on the scorecards normally..  They are too subjective and are often flawed int their reasoning..

[darkhunter139]

To be honest I don't even know what they are for

Anyone care to explain?

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Dreller

Hi everyones,

I would like to start a thread about an interesting question:

Do you use the Handicap value printed on scorecards for each holes ?

By example, for some golf courses, for each holes there is a Handicap value:

HOLE 1, PAR 3, HCP 4

HOLE 2, PAR 4, HCP 8

I'm creating an application for android devices, and I'm questionning pro and amateurs golfers to know what they really use on a scorecard.

Thanks!

Any time one is playing a match type of competition (like a traditional match or a skins game), the hole handicaps are necessary to determine where strokes are to be given.  If I take my 15 handicap and play against a 22, I would expect to give him 7 strokes.  Those strokes should be received on the holes where he deserves to get them - that is, the number 1 thru 7 handicap holes.  Those who just automatically say that the hole handicaps are flawed probably don't have any real understanding of how the system works.  That or they don't ever play in match competitions.  The individual hole handicaps are irrelevant in stroke play unless something like a skins game is also involved.

[Dreller]

Thanks for these explanations Fourputt, it's really appreciated ;-)

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Dreller

I'm creating an application for android devices

No offense, but perhaps if you don't golf or know much about golf, you shouldn't be developing an application for golfers? The best software is written by people who use the software.

[Dreller]

No offence of course ;) I personnally play golf since a couple of years and my friend (who help me) plays golf since 15 years. We never have used this "handicap per holes value" when we played together... We really love playing Golf :) That's why we want to build an app... Thanks for advice :)

[ohiolefty]

It's valuable sometimes when you haven't played a course and the layout is odd, the green complexes are tough, the distances are poorly marked, or other factors where you don't know what you're necessarily in for when you step onto the tee box for a hole. Other than that, most good players don't care about it. On my home course, the #1 handicap hole isn't the toughest one for me. I'm sure many folks on this site could say the same of their home course.

[yatzr]

I usually look at it just to figure out which holes are supposed to be the hardest and which are supposed to be the easiest.  For anything about 4-15, I don't pay attention.

[Bryan SD2]

When playing an unfamiliar course, or when playing with someone who has not played a course I am familiar with, I may cite the top few handicap holes, or maybe the bottom few (easiest of the par 3's, easiest of the 5's, that sort of thing)... but beyond that, don't really use them much.

[Shorty]

Are you talking about handicap index or matchplay indexes? Or both?

Both are becessary, but only if you are playing a par or stableford event (handicap index) and matchplay (matchplay index).

The OP should not be creating a golf application  if he doesn't know when these indexes are used.

The application would be useless without them at times.

For casual play, they have no value.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Any time one is playing a match type of competition (like a traditional match or a skins game), the hole handicaps are necessary to determine where strokes are to be given.  If I take my 15 handicap and play against a 22, I would expect to give him 7 strokes.  Those strokes should be received on the holes where he deserves to get them - that is, the number 1 thru 7 handicap holes.  Those who just automatically say that the hole handicaps are flawed probably don't have any real understanding of how the system works.  That or they don't ever play in match competitions.  The individual hole handicaps are irrelevant in stroke play unless something like a skins game is also involved.

You will find that in matchplay it does not work that way, unless you have a different system in the U.S.

There are two indexes.

Nowadays, shots are divided up equally throughout each 9 for the matchplay index.

There’s a standard match play index that most courses have adopted. The idea is to spread strokes given evenly.

There are still courses that use their Stableford index as the Match Play index, so this will be specific to the course.

In a match, if you were off 10 and your opponent was off 15, he would not get strokes on the 5 hardest holes. He would get shots on the matchplay index holes 1 to 5.

In a stableford event, if you were off 13, you would not get a shot on the 5 supposedly "easiest holes", indexes 13 to 18.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by ohiolefty

It's valuable sometimes when you haven't played a course and the layout is odd, the green complexes are tough, the distances are poorly marked, or other factors where you don't know what you're necessarily in for when you step onto the tee box for a hole. Other than that, most good players don't care about it. On my home course, the #1 handicap hole isn't the toughest one for me. I'm sure many folks on this site could say the same of their home course.

This is because that isn't how handicap rating works.  It doesn't rate the holes by difficulty.  It rates them by how likely it is that a bogey golfer will need a stroke to tie a scratch golfer.  On many difficult holes, the scratch golfer is almost as likely to make bogey as the bogey golfer, so that hole is not ranked as high as a hole where the bogey golfer would have a harder time staying with the scratch player.

For example, the 12th hole is long par 4 with no hazards except bunkers.  The bogey golfer knows he can't reach in regulation so he plays, 3W - hybrid - wedge - 2 putts, while the scratch player hits driver (maybe hits fairway bunker) - long iron (possibly in greenside bunker) - pitch or blast up and 2 putts.  Both make bogey, and both had almost the same chance to make par.  Thus this may be the most difficult hole on the course, but it may rank as the 6th or 8th handicap hole (back 9 should always have the even numbered handicap holes).

Originally Posted by Shorty

Are you talking about handicap index or matchplay indexes? Or both?

Both are becessary, but only if you are playing a par or stableford event (handicap index) and matchplay (matchplay index).

The OP should not be creating a golf application  if he doesn't know when these indexes are used.

The application would be useless without them at times.

For casual play, they have no value.

I've never even heard of a "match play index".  No such thing exists in the US as far as know.  We have handicap index which is plugged into the formula to arrive at course handicap .  For match play the lower course handicap is subtracted from the higher course handicap and the higher handicap player gets the difference in strokes on the matching handicap holes.

Stableford is a very rare bird in the US, and even when used it is usually played just as a tournament with modified point values, not the standard as put forth in the Rules of Golf.

My home Men's club is playing their Point Par tournament this weekend using modified Stableford scoring:

Double Bogey & over (-2 points)	Eagle (+6 points)
Bogey (-1 point)	Double Eagle (+10 points)
Par (+1 point)	Triple Eagle (+12 points)
Birdie (+3 points)