Slow Pace, Lose The Ace!!!!!!

[trackster]

What I don't get is.....was he given the penalty before or after he shot?  If he was given before the shot then i guess it is what it is.

But if he was warned he was playing slow, then he clearly trying to speed up play just holed this shot as quickly as he could.  He obviously spent the least amount of time on this hole so to say he was the slow man of the group was misleading.

Also this is just flat out stupid.  Some people are fast and some are slower.  If he has a routine he goes through before a shot then so be it.

Also to label one group of people as slow is also stupid.  The way I or anyone plays is of no relation to another player.

[michaeljames92]

I would say I play quickly. However it pisses me off when you take a little extra time on each shot but get on the green in 2, whereas some oldie takes 4 to get on the green and then starts getting pissed off because you may take a few seconds to read a putt. That to me is not fair. On wednesday we were at the front of the field with 4 of us playing off single handicaps and it took us 3:30 to play a full round. We finished almost 2 holes ahead of the next group.

[deasy55]

Originally Posted by iacas

Nope, junior players are slow. I stand by that. By and large, overall, juniors are the slowest people out there. They take everything so seriously, have to go through their checklist, have their routines, get distracted, and don't have a clue what "ready golf" is or how it works. Slow play has been increasing, and as new players enter the game, they are increasingly failed to be educated on how to play at an appropriate pace.

Duh "slow people are slow." That's a pretty pointless thing to say. Of course there are fast juniors and slow seniors. But the average pace of play of juniors is slower in similar settings than it is with any other age group. It's a generalization, folks, and you might not like 'em, but they're true.

I think everyone - everyone - deserves a kick in the ass. Get going. Hit the damn ball. Juniors need to see how to play quickly. I was taught - or learned on my own - how to play quickly. I know where to leave my bag, where to park the cart, how to do as much as I can before I hit my shot so I can fire pretty quickly after the previous guy's ball stops moving (or before, if it's a casual round i.e. ready golf). Everyone needs to speed up.

[Grndslmhttr3]

If he really was playing that slowly, I think the stroke penalty was warranted. Perhaps the timing could've been a bit less cruel, though.

[Ignorant]

Originally Posted by iacas

I believe that's fairly standard procedure and the intended result is that if one or two of the three people are responsible, then the players who tried to play fast won't be penalized. In other words, the committee must have decided that the one guy was solely responsible for the slow play, or responsible enough that he shouldered the burden all by himself.

Similar things have happened in U.S. Am qualifying, I believe, last year perhaps. I think two of the three players got a penalty. And the LPGA Tour has doled out some penalties too.

My guess is that all three mistakenly got a penalty at the same time from the RO due to the ace-maker exceeding his time for that particular shot. According to the standard procedure only one player may be penalized, not the entire group, even though the whole group had been warned and was under the clock. Thus the other two were absolved.

As far as the hole case is concerned, nothing strange about it from Rules point of view, just bad luck it happened on the tee of a par3. And indeed, it is NOT an ace, as the number in player's score card is not 1 but 2.

[LankyLefty]

USGA Pace of Play guidelines are really quite lenient. If this kid go smacked with a penatly for pace of play It means he either could not maintain a pace 3 hours and 58 min, or he took more then 40 seconds to make his shot. Im betting he violated the 40 sec rule which means the dude basically was napping. Not being able to swing your club for 40 seconds after the tee box has been given to you, landing area is clear, the crowd quieted ect. ect. is inexcusable. Especially twice. What did he do stop to have lunch. If everoyne took 40 seconds to make a shot after reaching their ball with no one in front of them I would quit golf until I could afford to buy my own course.

[max power]

It certainly is "of relation."  Speed up.

Originally Posted by trackster

What I don't get is.....was he given the penalty before or after he shot?  If he was given before the shot then i guess it is what it is.

But if he was warned he was playing slow, then he clearly trying to speed up play just holed this shot as quickly as he could.  He obviously spent the least amount of time on this hole so to say he was the slow man of the group was misleading.

Also this is just flat out stupid.  Some people are fast and some are slower.  If he has a routine he goes through before a shot then so be it.

Also to label one group of people as slow is also stupid.  The way I or anyone plays is of no relation to another player.

[LankyLefty]

This guy entered a tournament that bound him to all the USGA rules. He broke them, he paid the price. Simple as that.

I have no problem with people that are slow so long as they realize they are slow and dont get pissed when Im halfway up their ass trying to get them to let me play through, if you have a long pre shot routine fine, just let people play through and you wont slow anyone down that bad. However if you enter a tournament you are bound by the rules of it. What he did is no less of an infraction then grounding a club in a trap or carrying 15 clubs. He broke a rule and was given the penalty end of story. Is the timing ironic, cruel even? Sure that's why its newsworthy. But rules are rules he accepted them by entering the tourny so he has to accept the consequences for breaking them.

Originally Posted by trackster

What I don't get is.....was he given the penalty before or after he shot?  If he was given before the shot then i guess it is what it is.

But if he was warned he was playing slow, then he clearly trying to speed up play just holed this shot as quickly as he could.  He obviously spent the least amount of time on this hole so to say he was the slow man of the group was misleading.

Also this is just flat out stupid.  Some people are fast and some are slower.  If he has a routine he goes through before a shot then so be it.

Also to label one group of people as slow is also stupid.  The way I or anyone plays is of no relation to another player.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by LankyLefty

USGA Pace of Play guidelines are really quite lenient. If this kid go smacked with a penatly for pace of play It means he either could not maintain a pace 3 hours and 58 min, or he took more then 40 seconds to make his shot. Im betting he violated the 40 sec rule which means the dude basically was napping. Not being able to swing your club for 40 seconds after the tee box has been given to you, landing area is clear, the crowd quieted ect. ect. is inexcusable. Especially twice. What did he do stop to have lunch. If everoyne took 40 seconds to make a shot after reaching their ball with no one in front of them I would quit golf until I could afford to buy my own course.

There is considerable leniency in policing pace of play in USGA Championships, but I don't know where you get the 3:58 number.  My resource says 4:35 for 18 holes, but that was for the 2003 Amateur Public Links.  He had to have been on the clock prior to receiving the penalty, which means that he had been warned before being put on the clock, then warned again without penalty for exceeding the 40 second time limit.  Then he exceeded the time limit on a second occasion to receive the penalty.  This is the link to the USGA Pace of Play Policy .

The kid had to be well aware that he was on the clock and was at risk, yet he was still incapable of playing within the required guidelines.  I have zero sympathy for him.

By the way, Erik is correct about a lot of juniors when participating in a competition.  We hold a number of high school matches and competitions on my home course and they are some of the slowest players we host.

[gibbous]

Originally Posted by trackster But if he was warned he was playing slow, then he clearly trying to speed up play just holed this shot as quickly as he could.  He obviously spent the least amount of time on this hole so to say he was the slow man of the group was misleading.

Seriously?  Like the guy would have had no interest in a hole in one before he was put on the clock, but then suddenly decides to pull out his magic wand and ace the hole just to speed up play?  I've never made a hole in one, am I just not trying to play fast enough?

Quote:

Originally Posted by trackster

Also to label one group of people as slow is also stupid.  The way I or anyone plays is of no relation to another player.

[trackster]

I have a feeling that if this person was an adult he would be getting a couple more people in his favor.  But since he is a "kid" he has no chance.

Also what I was talking about is he was obviously the fastest of his group on this hole, why slap the penalty on them on this particular hole after this particular shot.

If he went through his routine and it worked out that he got a hole in one then so be it.

Also when i said the way i play is of no relation to some one else it was exactly what i meant.  I'm 20 i play fast, I bet i can find another 20 year old who plays slow.  Age group doesn't have anything to do with the pace you play.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by trackster

I have a feeling that if this person was an adult he would be getting a couple more people in his favor.  But since he is a "kid" he has no chance.

Also what I was talking about is he was obviously the fastest of his group on this hole, why slap the penalty on them on this particular hole after this particular shot.

If he went through his routine and it worked out that he got a hole in one then so be it.

Also when i said the way i play is of no relation to some one else it was exactly what i meant.  I'm 20 i play fast, I bet i can find another 20 year old who plays slow.  Age group doesn't have anything to do with the pace you play..

It has nothing to do with speed on the hole, it has everything to do with playing his stroke within the 40 second limit when he is on the clock.  The fact that he holed out in one shot is irrelevant to the penalty if it took him 50 seconds to play the shot.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by trackster

I have a feeling that if this person was an adult he would be getting a couple more people in his favor.  But since he is a "kid" he has no chance.

I don't think that has anything to do with it.

Originally Posted by trackster

Also what I was talking about is he was obviously the fastest of his group on this hole, why slap the penalty on them on this particular hole after this particular shot.

Because that hole was the checkpoint hole. He had plenty of opportunity to help his group catch up, failed to do so, and was determined to be the cause. Checkpoint hole = penalty on that hole.

Originally Posted by trackster

If he went through his routine and it worked out that he got a hole in one then so be it.

"Then so be it"? He was warned multiple times, failed to help his group make up time, and was assessed a penalty. So be it.

[trackster]

What does some one sit behind him with a stop watch and as soon as it gets to 40 seconds he throws up a red flag?

If it was a checkpoint hole and not the 40 second thing, then how come the other two got their penalty removed?  Their play has to do with how fast the group plays.

If i address my ball on the tee, feel wind or something else, decide to choose a different club and aim a little right or left and i hit a hole in one because I took my time i should deserve it.  Not be penalized for doing what is best for me to make the best shot.

And since the first comment after the original post was about how juniors are slow, i would think that age has a lot to do with it.

It's no worse then the pros who walk all the way to the other side of the green to try to read a putt.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by trackster

What does some one sit behind him with a stop watch and as soon as it gets to 40 seconds he throws up a red flag?

Once they've been put on the clock and/or are on a checkpoint hole, then yes. How else are you going to enforce a rule regarding time allowed other than to use a timer?

Originally Posted by trackster

If it was a checkpoint hole and not the 40 second thing, then how come the other two got their penalty removed?  Their play has to do with how fast the group plays.

My guess would be because the person penalized was the only one who took more than the allotted time to hit his shot on that hole. Or that each player had been individually timed over previous holes and the one receiving the penalty was the only one taking too long.

Originally Posted by trackster

If i address my ball on the tee, feel wind or something else, decide to choose a different club and aim a little right or left and i hit a hole in one because I took my time i should deserve it.

If you do all that to the point that you've run past your allotted time to hit, after already being put on the clock for playing too slowly, then you do deserve to be penalized. If you've been put on the clock you need to speed things up and get back into position, not keep doing what you've been doing to delay play.

Originally Posted by trackster

And since the first comment after the original post was about how juniors are slow, i would think that age has a lot to do with it.

The rule applies to everyone, regardless of age. Whether you think younger people are unfairly stereotyped as slow players or not, it doesn't change the fact that this guy played slow.

Originally Posted by trackster

It's no worse then the pros who walk all the way to the other side of the green to try to read a putt.

I believe that once you're on the green the rule allows you more time to hit your shot. Regardless, you can do all the walking around you want without penalty as long as you are not breaking the rules about slow play. The person in question here broke the rules about slow play.

Forgive me if I seem to be laying into you here but you'll find that many of us are passionate about reducing slow play, and any rule that helps in that regard is going to be strongly defended.

[LankyLefty]

Putting rules are different. My understanding is that in putting the clock does not start until you address the ball, however Id assume the that overall pace for the round still would apply so you can't exactly take forever however the clock on putting begins when club gets behind ball.

[bluto]

That sucks for him.

If I was in that situation, i'd still mount that ball on a plaque and hang it in my office.  I'd included a copy of the article and the scorecard, and label the top "Ace?"  Sure, it's technically a 2, but it would make a heck of a conversation piece.  I could get a read on anyone that came in my office that I had never met by asking them what they think about it.  If they quickly agree that regardless of the unfortunate circumstances, it is still a 2, then they're pretty strict rule following types.  If they made a big deal about how unfair it was, and how they should've just given me the ace, then they may do things in the "gray".

[Spyder]

I don't want to hear anything about slow play lol. We were stuck behind a massive amount of SLOW groups. It took us 6.5 hours to finish 18 holes. I was very tempted to get in my car and leave after 9 but having paid for 18+cart, I really didn't want to throw money away like that. We were not allowed a 9 hole credit and there was no sense in "playing through" as there were at least 6 groups ahead of us. These people were standing around talking, hitting the ball 10 ft, shanking one 100 yards to the right and another in the same cart would go 100 left. Rather than drop one person off with their club in hand to go find their ball, they'd park and wait then ride back find theirs, rinse and repeat for 9 holes. We took a half hour break at the turn and had our share of misery beers and then finished the back 9 and got home in time to shower, eat dinner and get some sleep. Started at 1 PM and was done at a little after 7:30 PM. I shot a 102 out of frustration.