What a Difference Trapping the Ball Makes!

[tmf9]

So I finally broke my stubborn streak today and got my first ever lesson and one of the many thing the pro worked on me with was trapping the ball with irons.  WOW you talk about some beautiful shots I mean I was hitting every iron a full club further and longer irons about a club and a half further.  Hit one 4 iron 245 yards no joke...just some amazing shots on a beautiful trajectory, had no idea what a difference trapping the ball could make.  Man i really wih I would have gotten lessons earlier lol.

[TMJunkie]

Good stuff man. That's my main focus lately. Do you have any tips the pro gave you that maybe I can try?

[BuckeyeNut]

nununununu............be the ball!!!

[vikramraju]

Thats awesome! I worked on that all summer and finally am able to just about get that boring trajectory I have been yearning. Congrats.

[tmf9]

Preciate it yall, it really was the best feeling ive had in a while golfing, and the pro just told me on concentrating getting the butt of the club ahead of the ball.

[Zeph]

Great, hope you can keep those feelings going. For the record, you don't really trap the ball or pinch it between the clubface and ground. It may be a good visual or feeling, but the ball always bounce right off the face, it never move down first.

[nevets88]

When I have the course to myself, I'll play multiple balls off the tee - sometimes I'll hit one really solid, divot starts way in front of the ball, almost passes my front foot. Last week I hit a 7 iron a little fat and it hooked a bit and went 150-155. The next shot, I was super aggressive with my hips and it went 165-170, but just barely caught the right side of the back green. Thing of it is I cannot reproduce this all the time. 1/4. 1/3? I'll be happy with 2/3. 3/4 right now.

Sometimes I visualize the leading edge starting contact just above the top half of the ball and driving through and down-ish, but I never think trap - I think hips forward, extend arms, that does it for me, YMMV. When I think trap, I get fat, left, pull and or hook.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Zeph

Great, hope you can keep those feelings going.

For the record, you don't really trap the ball or pinch it between the clubface and ground. It may be a good visual or feeling, but the ball always bounce right off the face, it never move down first.

Can you explain to us, for the record, why the same club/ball contact from wet turf results in different ball flight and distance than a ball struck from from relatively dry turf or from hardpan?

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Can you explain to us, for the record, why the same club/ball contact from wet turf results in different ball flight and distance than a ball struck from from relatively dry turf or from hardpan?

If contact is ball-first, and truly identical, then turf conditions shouldn't result in any significantly different ball flight or distance. Unless we're positing other factors like the introduction of moisture between the club face and ball.

I would suggest that variations observed are likely a result of the player swinging differently (consciously or unconsciously) to try and avoid fatting in the wet or breaking his wrists on the concrete.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Can you explain to us, for the record, why the same club/ball contact from wet turf results in different ball flight and distance than a ball struck from from relatively dry turf or from hardpan?

Stretch answered it.

The other way to answer it is that "people swing differently" in different conditions. Ball/club contact is and impact alignments and parameters are different.

Ball/club interaction is not an opinion.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Stretch

If contact is ball-first, and truly identical, then turf conditions shouldn't result in any significantly different ball flight or distance. Unless we're positing other factors like the introduction of moisture between the club face and ball.

I would suggest that variations observed are likely a result of the player swinging differently (consciously or unconsciously) to try and avoid fatting in the wet or breaking his wrists on the concrete.

Do you have any youtube (or otherwise) video of identical contact, including images of the ball and turf at impact, from varying surfaces to better illustrate this?  It would help answer why the results are consistent whether the player is aware of the nature of the lie or not (e.g. looks the same as the previous lie until post-impact). Perhaps from wet turf there is some type of bond / force present between the dimpled ball and water soaked turf that must be broken. Not tons of force - maybe 1/2 a club.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Do you have any youtube (or otherwise) video of identical contact, including images of the ball and turf at impact, from varying surfaces to better illustrate this?  It would help answer why the results are consistent whether the player is aware of the nature of the lie or not (e.g. looks the same as the previous lie until post-impact). Perhaps from wet turf there is some type of bond / force present between the dimpled ball and water soaked turf that must be broken. Not tons of force - maybe 1/2 a club.

sean, go talk to some ball engineers, or club engineers. Look at high-speed video yourself. I can't speak for Stretch, but educating you on something that's simple fact (albeit one with virtually infinite permutations) is not at the top of the list of things I really want to do on a weekend: the ball is not "pinched" or "compressed" or "trapped" against the ground. That much is fact.

And thus ends the off-topic portion of this thread.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by iacas

sean, go talk to some ball engineers, or club engineers. Look at high-speed video yourself. I can't speak for Stretch, but educating you on something that's simple fact (albeit one with virtually infinite permutations) is not at the top of the list of things I really want to do on a weekend: the ball is not "pinched" or "compressed" or "trapped" against the ground. That much is fact.

And thus ends the off-topic portion of this thread.

I've known for years that a ball hit from water saturated turf flies at least a 1/2 club shorter. I don't need to chase that on the internet or get confirmation from engineers I'm not sure even sure how to track down. I know it's true because once I learned it, I knew it. At least I "know it" well enough to realize that not pulling an extra club will leave me short of my target. Beyond that, I suppose nothing else really matters.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I've known for years that a ball hit from water saturated turf flies at least a 1/2 club shorter. I don't need to chase that on the internet or get confirmation from engineers I'm not sure even sure how to track down. I know it's true because once I learned it, I knew it. At least I "know it" well enough to realize that not pulling an extra club will leave me short of my target. Beyond that, I suppose nothing else really matters.

Thanks for sharing.

Now back to the topic: good players have forward shaft lean. Poorer players do not.

[tmf9]

Originally Posted by nevets88

When I have the course to myself, I'll play multiple balls off the tee - sometimes I'll hit one really solid, divot starts way in front of the ball, almost passes my front foot. Last week I hit a 7 iron a little fat and it hooked a bit and went 150-155. The next shot, I was super aggressive with my hips and it went 165-170, but just barely caught the right side of the back green. Thing of it is I cannot reproduce this all the time. 1/4. 1/3? I'll be happy with 2/3. 3/4 right now.

Sometimes I visualize the leading edge starting contact just above the top half of the ball and driving through and down-ish, but I never think trap - I think hips forward, extend arms, that does it for me, YMMV. When I think trap, I get fat, left, pull and or hook.

Yeah I really didn't realize how much further i was hitting my irons until today.  I went over so many greens today it wasn't even funny!  Went over a 163 yard par 3 with a PW! I was hitting my pw about 150.  Also wayyy went over a 190 yard par 3 with a 7 iron (thing most have flown 205) used to hit that about 185 max.  Granted some of this distance is coming from a better weight transfer but i know alot of it is from a foward shaft lean at impact.